starter circuit relay or red diode box?

[crazydayz]

So I got a question about the electrical components In my LiL Bad Donkey Bobber. The push button start switch won't work. I tested all the safety switches (on/off, key switch, neautral, starter lock out, kick stand) they all work! But I bypassed them anyway just to be sure. well.... the safety neutral switch turns the neutral light on so I am guessing it works. Checked the Fuses (Good). replaced the solenoid (still nothing, No click but can be jumped) That leaves starter circuit relay or red diode box. Any suggestions before I go buying more parts? Battery is at 13 volts. All the lights and horn work. And it does run when jumping the solenoid.

[crazydayz]

HAHAHA it switched A## to donkey ;D

[eaglerider]

Yep...word substitution software.....we are not the "typical biker forum" where anything goes, or said. This is a family oriented forum. Now, to your question: Have you checked all your ground connections? If so, and they are all good, most likely the starter selonoid is defective, or the push button is dirty/defective, failing to complete the starting circuit.

[crazydayz]

thats good! family oriented is the way to be! I checked the grounds and all seem to be ok. even took them off grinded the frame a lil for better connection and made sure the battery terminal was ok and secure. I tested the starter relay and one side is open like its suppose to be and the other has continuity. I dont think I am getting juice to any of it though. which is why I think it could be the diodes. Since thats what they are suppose to do. Also my small fuse in the fuse holder was blown prior to all this and I cant tell what that particular one is for.

[crazydayz]

oh and I took the start button and cleaned it, nothing. Then I replaced it with a spare, still nothing

[crazydayz]

AH well, I just broke down and purchased the starter circuit relay and the diode. I will post my findings and results when they get here. Thanks for the help eagle!

[sky454]

Hi,

Any update on this? I'm in the same boat.

Just received the bike from a "questionable" ebay seller who said it just needed new coils and it would be a "New Bike".

Well i cold tested the coils and primaries are a little high at 3.5 ohms (vs 2.1 to 3.2 spec) and secondaries are okay at 12 ohms (vs 10-16 spec).

they are both the same so i think they are okay.

Battery was flat when i got it (9.5V) so topped off cells with distilled water and charged overnight. Seems to be okay today (12.4V)

Reinstalled battery and lighting systems work. Lights, neutral, signals, horn. All strong.

But absolutely nothing when i press the starter button. No clicks, grinds or anything. I checked the safty places (clutch, stand, etc) and all seem okay.

Will check relay and solonoid next.

[eaglerider]

Check the selonoid by "jumping" the 2 large battery terminals, to see if the starter cranks. If not, then u just may have a bad ground, or hopefully not, a bad starter.

[sky454]

i tried to "jump" the starter by connecting the main battery to the starter leads. The black was okay but as soon as i touch the positive it sparks. The engine doesn't turn over. not even a bit.

sounds like a bad starter motor?

[wanchesenative]

If you've narrowed it down to the starter, I recommend a rebuild kit. I went the used starter route and although it was fine when I got it, it didn't last long. The rebuild kit I got was from ebay and was super easy to do. And for only between 20-30 bucks, MUCH cheaper than a new starter.

[sky454]

hmmm...well after going back to the diagram i realized that i was reversing polarity on trying to crank the starter motor

Positive terminal is on the inside under the air hose and the negative on the outside. Once i "jumped" it the right way the starter turned. i didn't have enough juice to try a full crank but it seems the issue may be in the starter relay.

And i found the relay hidden behind the right side airbox. voltage reads okay across it but no clicking.

Back to testing...

[Jet⚡Black]

It's possible that it is in the switch itself, when I took mine apart to clean the contacts; I noticed the switch was pretty weak and left much to be desired.

For the starter relay; if a click occurs, the contacts cannot move, this is usually one click not multiple clicks, multiple clicks are most times a low or discharged battery. The click is caused by an electromagnet arm which that gets stuck, sometimes there will not be a click if it is already stuck.

To test it to remove the cables from the "B" and "M" terminals on the relay. check for ohms across the contacts; it should read as an open circuit. Then turn on the ignition, the start switch, and press the start button. The ohm meter should read near zero. If not your starter relay is bad.

Tapping(not hitting) the starter relay with a screw driver handle sometimes frees it up. You can by pass this to start the bike;with the same tapping screw driver cross the connections with the blade; it will spark so don't let that surprise you.

[sky454]

Thanks i'll give that a try tomorrow.

[sky454]

Well the relay is definitely shot. i tapped it a few times. and nothing.

So i took it out completely and touched two wires from a seperate fully charged battery. nada. zip. zilch. no clicks.

i'll look for a replacement.

That issue addressed i'll start a new thread with the next one

[sky454]

Youch! local ex-Kawi dealer wants $108 for a NOS solenoid.

Part 27010-1235

Is there a cheaper aftermarket alternative out there? I see used ones on ebay but...risky.

Thanks

[gary200211]

I'm having a similar problem. Bike wouldn't start and was a loud single click coming from the starter solenoid. I replaced it assuming it was bad, and the same click is happening with the new one. I checked the starter relay circuit and the connections all looked ok, could that be bad also? I'm also confused how to bypass everything and "jump" start the bike.

[Jet⚡Black]

I don't know if you guys have read this thread; but it contains solutions for all no starts involving electrical...the meat and potatoes if it happens on page 2
ltd454.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=electrical&action=display&thread=3687&page=2

[snellgelt]

Can you tell me where you purchased the diode from please?

[sky454]

I ended up only needing to replace the starter relay. Autozone has the equivalent for about $30.

Duralast

Part 19829

[snellgelt]

Thanks!!!

[snellgelt]

Sept 15, 2012 8:31:26 GMT -6 sky454 said:

I ended up only needing to replace the starter relay. Autozone has the equivalent for about $30.

Duralast

Part 19829

Are you saying the above part is a direct replacement for the diode on our bikes that is obsolete???

[sky454]

No. Not saying that.

I found that my starter relay was fried. It's the four prong switch right beside the solenoid under the right side cover.

I didn't need to replace the red box. Sorry.

[sky454]

Forgot to mention. As a test you can try switching the starter relay with the existing signal relay which is on the back left side of the bike under the passenger part of the seat. It is the same part. If engine starts you know your original switch is bad.

[sagrath]

Hey guys.

Today i found out that the positive cable from the relay to the starter motor was loose. Due to this, sparks appeared and from the heat, they almost welded down the nut.

I got out the nut finally, but the copper external thread is damaged. I only have left 3-4 spirals left.

I put back the cable and the nut, but i'm thinking of either rebulding the external thread (that means that i must use a die to narrow it) or buying a new one.

Do you have any idea where i could buy one online? I'm from Romania and i don't know if i can order online from dedicated sites from USA. I will check the price locally, but i think is much cheaper in other countries.

Thanx.

[Jet⚡Black]

You could check csmnl.com for new one; they ship world wide. I think chasing it with a die, is going to be your cheapest option; then make sure to put a lock nut on it, to prevent it occurring again...that's what I would do personally.

[454guy]

hi have you checked the kick stand switch? that could be it I had to bypass mine to get the bike to start.

[blacksmith]

Since this is the thread which help the most, may I piggy back on it.  Starter issues at the moment. Rode the bike 80+ miles one day flipped it off, came back to fire it up and nothing.  Read through this thread and a few others, pulled kill switch and start button and noticed nothing abnormal, looked a solenoid it clicked once and nothing else, jumped solenoid terminals and the starter turned over and maybe started the bike, glanced at relay and didn't notice anything.  Ordered a new solenoid to give it a try and installed it today, pressed start button with kill switch in "run" nothing happened, swapped wires around (maybe I did it backwards), still nothing.  Tested volts at kill switch (9v), starter button (9v), and new solenoid (not starter terminals and cannot get a reliable read).  What is missing? Can the starter circuit fry? Can a diode be shot?  Is there a way to test and diagnose?

(Edited) Allow me to add kill switch and starter button have been disassembled and cleaned with electrical contact cleaner (almost look new!).  At initial inspection disconnected starter button wires and jumped hot to ground, that is how I heard the solenoid click once and nothing further.  Just tested diodes, all appear normal.  

[blacksmith]

Never mind, misunderstood this post because y'all mean relay NOT solenoid.  I have now paid a stupid tax because the solenoid probably worked fine and pulled the proper relay out (its rusted beyond belief) tapped it in my hand a couple of times and now the bike fires up.  The next question is how to get a reliable relay.  Can one be built out of fuses?