Carburetors or EFI?

[Jet⚡Black]

I posted this on another forum; and so far have gotten zero feedback; so I figured I'd ask the guys/gals that ride the 454 what their thoughts are...

I have been kicking around the idea, of an EFI conversion for my 454LTD, and have it all worked out; if I go that route...

So I am wondering what some opinions on EFI over Carburetor or vice versa are; would you convert your bike? Why or Why not?

No need to answer those specific questions; unless you want too...just looking for some input; outside of my mind.

[eaglerider]

Cost would be a big factor to most, I would think.

[Jet⚡Black]

I ran across this kit that should work just fine on our bikes; it's under 600 plus shipping which isn't bad, for a bolt on solution. So I have been kicking the idea around... www.ecotrons.com/Kawasaki_Ninja_250cc_EFI_kit.html

[eaglerider]

It should fit just fine....the only possible drawback I can see, is that it is for the 250.....smaller carbs (30s) where the stock 454s are 34s. This might tend to not feed enough fuel to the (almost twice as big) engine. I am not very familiar with fuel injection, so I don't know what the difference would be. I know when I installed the 500, the stock carbs were not feeding the engine enough fuel.

[zekkfett]

Search around on YouTube, you can find plenty of mid-sized bikes running this system.

My opinion, go for it! I've always wanted to do FI conversion, just lack the funds to do so. Price would be the ONLY drawback. It's tunable, and FAR more efficient than carburetion. If you ask me, ALL new bikes you come with FI.

[Jet⚡Black]

The benefits from what I have gathered, so far...Things it eliminates: No jet sizes the ECU can be mapped close then learn on it's own from there; and use the motor to it's fullest potential. No choke; as it automatically adjusts fuel air mixture for start up. When touring from sea level to higher back to lower altitudes; it auto adjusts so no more running too lean or rich based on elevation changes.

There's more such as toggle between maps for fuel saving that boosts mpg; and race mode...no explanation needed. But over all it regulates the fuel/air/mixture and spark timing to create a constant power curve from idle all the way to red-line.

I emailed the website with the query if the kit would work with a ex500 since some of us run the carbs and they are the same size anyway; and he may have scratched his head with the 454...I got a response back as follows:

Jim,

The throttle bodies for 250 is a little smaller than for ex500, which
is 32mm size of dual carbs, if I am correct.

You can get a pair of new ninja 650's TB, and fit to ex500 and we
provide the rest of the EFI system.

thx, Matt

So; from this Ninja 650 throttle bodies would fit the bill; since the 650 is already EFI; and from what I understand; from another forum is basically just a longer stroked 500 motor...

At this point I guess that I can't complain that Kawasaki has not changed much...a lot of people seem to complain that they kept the basic Ninja design for way too long...but at the same time, Hardley D. has a billion add ons etc. because they kept to the same designs and formula for so long.

Given the EX500 was manufactured by Kawasaki from 1987 to 2009, with a partial redesign in 1994 and was also it's best selling sport bike for most of those years...we are never going to be in short supply for motors; if we jump up to the 500 power plant as some have already. The after market mods and base are bound to grow like they did for Hardley D.

I mean, why design something major for a bike; get it mass produced and then it is completely redesigned the next year? That market is too much of a gamble. Sure Kawasaki has taken a lot of flack...for no major redesigns on the EX500; but in my book that's the shiniest side of the coin there is...at least from a 454 owners perspective.

I bet getting ahold of that random R&D bike; no one seems to recall or know about...that started and branched two whole lines for several years; is looking a lot prettier now. I know it is for me ;D

I might be going to the EFI system some time maybe in the next year; maybe I sparked the owner/creator Matt of the EFI system for the 250; to look into a solution for the 500...I mean there's way more of the 500's out there than the 250's to profit from; with this mod. Which also would benefit us in the way of cheap carbs; blown motors from people that don't know what a red line means creating more cheap parts...more win.

Eagle thanks for your advice to keep it and not flip it; when I first joined the forum...because I would have cleaned it; tuned it and slapped it out the door...for a profit and been on my way to the next one; without even realizing how perfectly the 454 is positioned in Kawasaki's line up, to benefit from both sides of the fence: The R&D Cruiser frame for the Vulcan line, and the R&D power plant for the Ninja line.

Half a Ninja? More like the missing link...

[zekkfett]

Jet, I could keep going... Just because the kit wasn't designed for the bigger displacements, doesn't mean it won't work. All of the above bikes were over 500cc's, and it even works with the big 650 singles.

[wanchesenative]

If it does work, I would definitely say it is a plus. I agree that financially, I will never be able to do it. But It sounds like the perfect answer to what I see as the one major down side to this bike....Keeping the carbs tuned right as she ages, you change to pods, you fit custom exhaust......etc. But 600 almost doubles what I paid for the bike. BUT MAN WOULD IT BE AWESOME TO NOT DEAL WITH THESE BLEEPIN CARBS!!!!

[Jet⚡Black]

I was wondering peoples opinions for a strictly monkeying around EFI project. Possibly late winter or spring, I might FI something...I thought I'd throw the 454 into the mix...other things I was thinking of too is my riding lawn mower; 2 or 9HP outboard, or 63 Honda.

I've seen some of the videos Zekk all part of the research when mod storming ideas. It's still up in the air though to what I'm going to EFI...most likely it will be my '63 because, I want to put flat slides on the 454 at some point.

[zekkfett]

Nov 1, 2012 6:58:41 GMT -6 Jet⚡Black said:

2 or 9HP outboard

That would be AWESOME! I have a Merc, 40 HP, and hadn't even thought of an outboard to throw in that mix.... Outboard might be a little tough, given the limited space usually available inside the case. Makes the most economical sense though, as an outboard would be the engine of the bunch, to be the least efficient. And would be the one most likely to sit the longest without being used.

Also....... makes the least sense for a 2 or 9HP.... I would think you would want to use EFI on a boat that has a permanent tank. Might be difficult to mount a fuel pump in a gas can/portable outboard tank.... Although you could use an inline pump, fuel pumps are better at pushing fuel than pulling it. (I'm sure I don't have to remind you of that, just gotta throw that out there)

That reminds me of my other project... Gotta get that boat pulled apart and restored.... Got a bad runner underneath the fiberglass floor, boat is twisted slightly. Full restore with custom decking to come.... one of these days....

[Jet⚡Black]

Agreed the 2 or 9 hp outboard doesn't make sense; the cost involved would equal a larger motor, so it would be one of those just for the heck of it things people tend to do.

The 63' Honda is my experiment and play with machine; so that's what will get the EFI when I get around to it.

That's the best thing about fiberglass boats; the fiberglass. You can DIY all day long on one of those...mold and shape what you want, patch it etc. the worst apart about them...they use the worlds crappiest wood inside it. Particle board/MDF and water don't mix.

[regularman]

I have not set up an EFI but I have watched others. I have set up lots of carbs. The thing is with motorcycle carbs there are 8 throttle positions you you need to check and get right.
With either carbs or EFI the setup is just a guess, nothing more, until you run it heated up in the condition you are trying to set it for.
I have worked in electronics all my life and I don't like EFI because there is not enough feedback to have a setup that is "right" to my mind. I must concede that EFI will give you better economy over all but its about halfway of where it needs to be.
When you take off from stopped, there is a lot of difference if you are going down hill or up hill, for instance, and EFI doesn't look at that.
EFI doesn't take into account the need for a rich mixture simple for cooling on an air cooled bike, and I witnessed a Yamaha EFI engine seize up in traffic. It was a situation where I know I could have put in the correct Idle jet and that would not have happened. I cannot believe that you are going to get more power from EFI than a CVK when its set up right.