Stuck at home with NO Wheels!!

[blacksmith]

Bought a 454 a few months ago and thanks to the advice on the boards have been riding it around.  To appease Eaglerider from afar and my ears I adjusted valves today following everything I could find.  Valves adjusted to spec but here's where the fun begins.  Now my bike will not run.  Starter turns one cylinder fires once, but that's it.  I would suspect bad spark or electrics but the bike was running yesterday.  I took it apart and triple checked everything to realize I had made some adjustment mistakes, corrected those and still nothing.  A previous owner had taped and marked everything spark plug wise, so I guess they were working on the bike regularly.  What am I not noticing?  Exhaust max gap 0.23mm, intake max 0.18mm.  

The one variation on the process is draining the coolant.  Due to an aftermarket exhaust the drain plug is inaccessable so I drained from hoses at the valve cover the first time, and the second time from the hoses above the drain plug.  In case the spark plugs are grounding someplace funny I have paper towels soaking any coolant from around spark plugs until morning.  

[blacksmith]

Some more info, since no one has replied.  Pulled it apart today, double checked specs and everything looks good.  I know many say on the board to forget marks on fly wheel and adjust according to cam lobes, did that.  My question is why are the F and T marks not TDC on the left hand cylinder?  Those marks have the cams pointed down and 90* to the rocker arms.  Double checked what timing should be on the bike and it looks like it should.  
I really don't want to take it to a shop and let it sit for 10 days before its rideable again.  Currently that option looks more likely.  

[Blaine]

Are you sure you didn't get the + = wires mixed up on the coils.? If memory serves me correct there should be a "c" mark for the left hand cylinder.The only way the timing could be off is if the can chain got moved.

[blacksmith]

Thanks Blaine.  The sense of urgency has left since I have some backup transportation.  Ended up dropping the bike at a shop to figure out engine issues and a couple minor things.  Figure they will see what my eyes are missing.  Plus they might have some NOS laying around to fix odds and ends.  I don't know why the flywheel marks differed from the cam timing.  I'll try to upload some photos when its back in my hands and working on the finished product.  

[blacksmith]

Shop looked everything over, wiggled a couple wires, said some incantation (not really) and it ran, sorta.  Rode the bike 10 miles or so, in 2 trips, to town and back.  Carbs felt sluggish.  What's confusing is that it revs fine in neutral, saw another thread to reread about a similar problem.  The next morning it was difficult to start, once started it ran, ok and then had little power.  Today the bike revved in neutral but had nothing worthwhile in gear.  It's almost like the bike is misfiring?  I have not checked spark and not sure if the shop did either.  

My plan is as such; tweak a few electrical issues that have been noticed, empty and remove tank, funnel enough gas to start and run the bike briefly followed by a good dose of seafoam, allow seafoam to soak (per directions), look over everything another time after consulting Clymer, turn the key and hope it all worked.  

IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT SHOULD BE DONE???

[Blaine]

It's starting to sound like the valves are two tight.After adjusting did you rotate the engine a couple of turns & recheck. ??

[blacksmith]

Blaine, when the adjustment was done I rolled the engine over twice and double checked everything. Valves had tightened but were above minimum spec. The shop also checked valves and said they were good. They measured compression and said it was around 30, but he wasn't sure he got a good reading. I have to pull the cover again to fix the tach gear and will check valves then, too. Thanks for the help.

[eaglerider]

Compression is 30?!!!!!! That is more than bad!!!! Something is terribly wrong, if they checked it right, and the valves are adjusted correctly!

[blacksmith]

Yup, was afraid that I fixed the 'pickle 'til it would run no more, ie. returned it to spec and it's seen so much prior abuse that it won't run at spec.  Well, since I'm not confident in my mechanical abilities right now and fear this has become a project I have no time for, it might make its way back to a shop tomorrow.  What sort of things might be wrong.  Some more info; as of yesterday the left cylinder is not firing (I've not checked spark or any of the top troubleshooting rabbit trails), and the right cylinder seems to fire with a "thwup" sound.  

Please list some worst case senarios if a compression of 30 means "terribly wrong".  

With rain forecast it's time to get this thing running and I'm not one for working on it, in the rain, on a small front porch (again).  

[deathwish4]

If your compression is that low you will need new piston rings at least, I don't think its that low, maybe he misread or you heard wrong.  but it sounds to me like an ignition problem. may need a new coil pack for that one side, or your wire could be pulled outta the coil just a lil or could be a bad wire, or plug, I would get both those plugs sparking good before I gave up.  good luck with it and keep us posted.

[blacksmith]

Thanks y'all.  Since it's beyond my expertise and comfort level the ole boy was handed off today and they should get to it middle of the week, hopefully.  Plus it's good to get experienced eyes looking at the whole thing.  I'll let you know what they say, hopefully it is electrical vs. mechanical issues.  Glad it went to the shop today because it was raining onto the porch a few times.  

[blacksmith]

As requested, an update.  Got the bike back and the run down was, vacuum leak on the carbs (so that's why you plug all of the holes after removing the California emissions), readjusted valves (they were in spec just not matching left to right, right was looser), and told to quick fix the pods by ductaping half  of the pod.  This means, more research about pods, don't worry I'll look at all of the posts, and moving on to the other minor (non-engine) fixes that need to be done.  Ran the bike around for a few errands and to have fun and I understand why so many love these bikes.  This one has 110,000+ miles on it and if I had a tach (missing that stupid little piece when I bought it) and a working speedo (next task on the to do list) I wouldn't hesitate to open it up and see what's possible.  
Thanks for all of the help and any questions that Clymer can't help me with will make their way on here, if they haven't already been answered.  

[blacksmith]

Rode around for 3 or so weeks and loved it.  Had a horse put me off my feet last week until Thanksgiving so Sam, the motorcycle, is chilling and getting tuned up when possible before winter.  One thing I noticed while the bike was running is this; the first start up of the day it would not fire on the left cylinder without some caudling.  However, if it ran for at least 20 seconds I could walk back to it later and fire right up.  I have yet to pull plugs, rebuild carbs, etc. and wonder why it resists initial startup.  Also, today while working on other odds and ends, noticed a 1/8" leak in the left exhaust 2" from the head.  Could this cause a significant pressure loss and problem even though pipes are essentially straight, no muffler or anything?  The leak does present a noticeable pressure difference between left and right exhaust pipes.  

Valves are probably not the problem, but after checking plugs and carbs I guess the next thing to do is recheck to see if one side has dropped below spec.  

[Blaine]

Have you checked the sparkplug caps? One of the resistors went bad in one of mine & I had a heck of a time finding the miss.The exhaust may be causing a lot of the problem if it's cracked close to the head.

[blacksmith]

Nov 3, 2014 19:17:18 GMT -6 Blaine said:

Have you checked the sparkplug caps? One of the resistors went bad in one of mine & I had a sunset of a time finding the miss.The exhaust may be causing a lot of the problem if it's cracked close to the head.

No I have not, that is added to the elimination list.  From the looks of the pipe it's leaked before, multiple weld beads near the current leak.  A shop recommended JB welding it or exhaust tape.  Is one better than the other?  Probably will JB it tomorrow, fire it up and see if that makes a difference.  And, in case I can't find my answer in clymer what are you looking for on the plug caps? 

[Blaine]

Nov 3, 2014 21:08:31 GMT -6 blacksmith said:

Nov 3, 2014 19:17:18 GMT -6 Blaine said:

Have you checked the sparkplug caps? One of the resistors went bad in one of mine & I had a sunset of a time finding the miss.The exhaust may be causing a lot of the problem if it's cracked close to the head.

No I have not, that is added to the elimination list.  From the looks of the pipe it's leaked before, multiple weld beads near the current leak.  A shop recommended JB welding it or exhaust tape.  Is one better than the other?  Probably will JB it tomorrow, fire it up and see if that makes a difference.  And, in case I can't find my answer in clymer what are you looking for on the plug caps? 

They can be tested but thats not my strong point.If in doubt you can replace them for less than 10 dollars each.The JB weld will only hold for a short time,but long enough to see if thats your problem.

[blacksmith]

Due to some extenuating circumstances the bike was put up for winter earlier than expected.  The riding time has been used to sort through problems and figure out why the left cylinder is grumpy.  So far, oil and filter change, carbs rebuilt, finally connected some non-essential wires, and new plugs.  Carbs cleaned out nicely and replaced L main jet and idle mix screws.  Spark plugs looked like they sparked well.  However, left cylinder is still reluctant to fire right up.  The plan is to check valve clearances, though they have been adjusted 3 times by 3 people (myself and 2 shops), and pick up a decent compression tester from AutoZone, can't rent one b/c it won't fit the bike, to test compression on a warmer day.  (The fun of wrenching on a front porch as winter sets in.)  

If valves check out (last shop said they adjusted to the middle of spec) and compression is low what are the top problems?  Sunken heads, bent or stuck valves, leaking head gasket, and piston rings are all potentials seen in the book or on this site.  How difficult is it to find quality parts at reasonable prices??  Is this something better for a quality shop to tackle???   

Sorry if that's too much or too little.  After instrument diagnostics I fear head removal is going to be the only way to know exactly what is making a grumpy left cylinder.

[blacksmith]

Final update and request.  After pulling heads and valves, most of the valves are damaged and need replaced.  PO didn't do the routine adjustment.  Pulled cylinders and pistons since the head was off.  The problem cylinder, left, has water damage and unacceptable measurements in the cylinder.  The point being, before I bought the bike it sat and developed some water damage.  

Does anyone have a cylinders and pistons in good condition that they might sell?  I could bore and put new pistons in, but that's not the most cost effective at the moment.  Anyone who is willing to help, it would be appreciated.  

[eaglerider]

Hey "birthday brother" (mine is July 10 also, but long before yours), where are you? I have some parts (jugs, etc), but shipping costs can be a problem, if you are far away.

[Thud300]

Water damage, could you be more specific on that? Corrosion?

[blacksmith]

Dec 28, 2014 18:31:07 GMT -6 Thud300 said:

Water damage, could you be more specific on that? Corrosion?

Noticeable rings and corrosion within the cylinder.  As if some water had collected in the cylinder (condensation or seepage) and rusted a ring inside the cylinder.  You can run your finger within the cylinder and feel multiple ridges at different depths.  I don't know how else to describe it.