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Post by chopperfreak2k1 on Feb 21, 2012 19:50:41 GMT -6
so IBM has been kind enough to share his knowledge on all things electrical and i have been selfish enough to take full advantage of his kindness and expertise.
anyway, we all know about pod filters, jets, and open exhaust. what we don't know yet is how to seriously upgrade our ignition system which can be quite a power gain, and that's what we want to discuss here.
we will learn together about this mythical "coil-on-plug" or COP, conversion and i think our bikes will be the better for it.
however i don't have this know-how so i will step aside and let IBM tell it like it is.
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Post by eaglerider on Feb 21, 2012 21:16:13 GMT -6
And I look forward to seeing it...and it will be saved here on the forum under the "electrical" heading that is already there, or here under "mods".
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Post by ibuiltmine on Feb 22, 2012 13:28:44 GMT -6
Hey guys... This is a pretty laid back forum, so I enjoy sharing knowledge without having to wade through all the hot chick, and woe is me threads to get to some useful stuff. But, I am a full time student, a licensed daycare provider that has 10 to 12 kids in my care from 6am to 6pm most days, and a family of my own to tend to! LOL! Ill go out with the meter today and check some ohms, take some pictures and get my story straight!
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Post by Blaine on Feb 22, 2012 14:24:24 GMT -6
Take your time.Any and all info you provide will be very useful to this forum & users.It is much appreciated .
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Post by ibuiltmine on Feb 22, 2012 15:53:59 GMT -6
Ok, people. First of all i do not claim to be an expert at anything. far from it in fact! I just want to share with you guys what I have learned about this bike. Keep in mind when I say this bike, sometimes I mean a 4 cyl and sometimes I mean a 2 cylinder. There really is very littel diference between these two bikes until you get right down to how many pistons and valves and exhaust ports it actually has. It is erie how similar a 454ltd and an early Ninja are. pretty much everything is swapable! Ok. This is 4 2001 ZX6 COPs,(longer ones) 4 2005 GSXR750 COPs (shorter ones) and one EN450 coil. oh and my beautiful Amprobe just to keep things straight, this is the coils from a 1991 zx600c (zx6r) they are pretty much the same thing as a 454 coil, except they are dual outlet instead of single.
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Post by ibuiltmine on Feb 22, 2012 15:55:16 GMT -6
First, check the ohms of the 454 coil. about 2.4 or 2.5 is a good coil. I believe spec is like between 2 and 3, something like that......
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Post by ibuiltmine on Feb 22, 2012 15:56:58 GMT -6
Now, I checked all 8 of my COPs and if I got a good contact withthe probes they were all right on 1.0 or 0.9 ohms (hard to do with the camera in one hand. ) So that means somehow you need to get about 1 or 1.5 ohms of resistance in there. Here is the wire harness off of the 2001 ninja. The connectors are all the same, across many manufacturers. It really is very simple. These two wires I am pointing at are the same thing as the two blade and socket style connectors that clip onto the stock 454 coils. Just strip back as much wire as you can, clip them, and solder the connector onto the stock wires! mind the positive and negative sides. there is a + embossed onto the side of your stock coil. I am not positive it really matter though, but I have never swapped them. (not sure which is positive on the COPs. I will look it up and come back and edit this) Also when you are putting these together, THIS is where you will put your 1 or 1.5 ohm resister, in line on the positive side if possible.
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Post by ibuiltmine on Feb 22, 2012 16:05:47 GMT -6
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Post by ibuiltmine on Feb 22, 2012 16:09:34 GMT -6
The newer seal boot doesn't fit the plug hole of the 454 very well. It slides on, but is a little loose, and will let junk down in there. This is the stock COP, a stock 454 plug, and then the COP with the 454 rubber boot shoved onto it to seal correctly. Then they just shove in! Im not sure what you will have to take apart to get them in there. I suppose you would have to take the tank off to make it easy on yourself, and also to remove the old coils and do the wiring right with heat shrink and stuff.
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Post by ibuiltmine on Feb 22, 2012 16:20:40 GMT -6
So, not too hard. take off your stock coils clip the wires and solder/heat shrink the resister and connectors on swap the boot shove them on and good to go! a couple things: 1 there is a head vent or whatever that is on top with the tubes coming out of it and your COP will barely clear it. I dont mind it, because it kind of puts a little tension on the COP and keeps it from wiggling around too much. Just keep in mind that the COP probably will break pretty easily as will the spark plug, so dont force it, or try to pry on it. 2. if you can not find a good heavy duty 1.5 ohm resister, then you can pair them. NOT in series, but parallel. so two 5ohm resisters in parallel will read 2.5 ohms. two 5 hm resisters in series will read 10 ohms. I used six 10 ohm resisters, and carefully wired them in parallel and not next to each other. I figured that would have more amperage capacity then one little 1.5 ohm resister. look here! 10w 1.5 ohm resister in a ceramic shell! awesome! www.ebay.com/itm/10W-1-5-Ohm-5-Wire-Wound-Ceramic-Cement-Resistor-5-Pcs-/180825012596?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a1a02b974After reading a little bit, in my bike I should have looke dfor like a 40 or 50 watt resister, as the little resistors heat up the resistance grows. a 10w 1.5 ohm will read about 2ish when in use. The good thing is though that slightly over resisting is better then slightly under resisting. you can hook it up direct with no resister, but the coil will flow so much energy it will burn out your CDI. I am trying to figure out how to put COP single fire ignition on my Piglet!
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Post by chopperfreak2k1 on Feb 22, 2012 16:41:49 GMT -6
WOW! your write up makes it sound so easy. IBM, you da man!
stupid question- since i know squat about wiring and electrical, when you say "wire them in parallel" you mean like side by side with all three making connections at the same point right?
i wish i could post an image of what i mean. i think in series you mean front to back and parallel is side by side. does this make sense?
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Post by ibuiltmine on Feb 22, 2012 17:02:57 GMT -6
parallel, like 6 cars driving next to each other, as opposed to series or 6 cars driving bumper to bumper.
it sounds easy, cuz it IS easy.....
Now.. I am thinking that with those coils gone, no more thermostat housing, and put about a 2 or 3 inch lift on the front of the tank to open up that space between the motor and the bottom of the tank would change the looks of the bike drastically and with not too much effort!
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Post by eaglerider on Feb 22, 2012 17:28:39 GMT -6
;)Those "head vents" are part of the emissions stuff.... most of us remove that and plug those vents. Take those ugly things off, get u some 1/8 or 1/4 inch thick aluminum plate, and make a pair of block-off plates....makes for a cleaner look on the valve cover. The Canadian models come equiped that way, since no emissions crap on theirs.
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Post by ibuiltmine on Feb 22, 2012 17:31:39 GMT -6
;)Those "head vents" are part of the emissions stuff.... most of us remove that and plug those vents. Take those ugly things off, get u some 1/8 or 1/4 inch thick aluminum plate, and make a pair of block-off plates....makes for a cleaner look on the valve cover. The Canadian models come equiped that way, since no emissions crap on theirs. Hmmm that works then! I didnt know if it had to do with crank case venting or something? so do the non-california bikes have it? wish I had a mill!
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Post by Blaine on Feb 22, 2012 18:48:18 GMT -6
;)Those "head vents" are part of the emissions stuff.... most of us remove that and plug those vents. Take those ugly things off, get u some 1/8 or 1/4 inch thick aluminum plate, and make a pair of block-off plates....makes for a cleaner look on the valve cover. The Canadian models come equiped that way, since no emissions crap on theirs. Hmmm that works then! I didnt know if it had to do with crank case venting or something? so do the non-california bikes have it? wish I had a mill! This is what you want: I found a source for block-off plates for the valve cover.They are for the EX500,but will fit our bikes. lamponedesigns.com/product_pages/kawasaki/010101/index.html
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Post by eaglerider on Feb 22, 2012 18:54:04 GMT -6
All US bikes have that emissions setup.
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Post by ibuiltmine on Feb 22, 2012 20:15:17 GMT -6
Is the ex500 the same stroke as the en450? just bored out to 500cc?
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Post by Blaine on Feb 22, 2012 20:30:45 GMT -6
Is the ex500 the same stroke as the en450? just bored out to 500cc? Yep,but with higher duration cams.
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Post by ibuiltmine on Feb 22, 2012 20:34:41 GMT -6
awesome. I would rather have a stock 450 over a stock 500. Cam up a 500, bore it out to 600cc, efi it and youd have a heck of a motor! Oh, wait! thats why I love the 650r! LOL!
Hmmmmmmm Wonder if a 650 r would fit in a 454! LOL! oh man...now my mid is racing!
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Post by Blaine on Feb 22, 2012 20:57:29 GMT -6
awesome. I would rather have a stock 450 over a stock 500. Me too.IMHO when they bored the 450 to 500 and put the redline to 14000 on the EX (Ninja) they over stressed the engine and reliability suffered at the upper end.The older Ninjas would snap the flywheel end off the crank.That's why I'm interested in your 600 conversion. ;D
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Post by ibuiltmine on Feb 22, 2012 22:17:26 GMT -6
My 600 conversion is done man. Took me like 2 hours to get the motor in there. I am just going to put some wild pipes on it, and stuff. If I were to put a 600 in an otherwise stock bike it wouldn't take but a weekend. wasnt there a 4 cyl water cooled kawi cruiser? like a 900cc one?
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Post by Blaine on Feb 22, 2012 22:50:12 GMT -6
My 600 conversion is done man. Took me like 2 hours to get the motor in there. I am just going to put some wild pipes on it, and stuff. If I were to put a 600 in an otherwise stock bike it wouldn't take but a weekend. wasnt there a 4 cyl water cooled kawi cruiser? like a 900cc one? Yes, the original 908cc Kawasaki Ninja.With 2 cylinders removed became the 454.
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Post by ibuiltmine on Feb 22, 2012 23:02:35 GMT -6
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Post by Blaine on Feb 22, 2012 23:13:31 GMT -6
Yep.That was a machine.Definitely a head turner.
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mradam
Junior Member
Posts: 214
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Post by mradam on Feb 23, 2012 9:31:16 GMT -6
how about a parts list lol 1.5Ohm resister and what coils work best???
also i am thinking we could make a hose clamp style bracket off the vent block off to hold these in place.
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Post by zekkfett on Feb 23, 2012 9:58:42 GMT -6
Just a heads up: Resistors can get HOT! Depending on the application, and the current and voltage through them. Buy good quality resistors, and carry some extra ones with you (or another set of COP's), if you plan on using this mod. Most resistors do have a thermal cutout, and if things get bad enough, they will just pop, possibly leaving you stranded.
Without giving an electronics lesson, resistors just turn unwanted energy into heat, VERY inefficient. And if resistor values are not calculated correctly, other things can go wrong.
Good on ya though ibm, nice mod; nice thought process involved. It would be so much nicer to "coil-less". Just one thought though....you should calculate the resistance of the orignal coil AND the plug wires before choosing a resistor. Minus of couse the resistance of the COP itself. (Unless of course you already did this) The resistance of the original wire might be up to 2 ohms of more....just a guess.
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mradam
Junior Member
Posts: 214
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Post by mradam on Feb 23, 2012 10:11:41 GMT -6
you could always figuring in some wire length and remote mount your resistors on the frame somewhere and built a heat sink for them. i am really interested in this mod. i am hoping to get back up to my parents place this weekend and finish the metal fab and exhaust and then bring the bike back home to finish the wiring and get it running. i could do some R&D on this later this spring once my bike is functional. The stock CDI is single fire right? meaning it sends a single trigger to both coils at the same time. did someone mention a while back that the early 90's 600 ninja was dual fire? does the HAL and pick up need swapped out for that too?
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Post by ibuiltmine on Feb 23, 2012 11:11:37 GMT -6
Just a heads up: Resistors can get HOT! Depending on the application, and the current and voltage through them. Buy good quality resistors, and carry some extra ones with you (or another set of COP's), if you plan on using this mod. Most resistors do have a thermal cutout, and if things get bad enough, they will just pop, possibly leaving you stranded. Without giving an electronics lesson, resistors just turn unwanted energy into heat, VERY inefficient. And if resistor values are not calculated correctly, other things can go wrong. Good on ya though ibm, nice mod; nice thought process involved. It would be so much nicer to "coil-less". Just one thought though....you should calculate the resistance of the orignal coil AND the plug wires before choosing a resistor. Minus of couse the resistance of the COP itself. (Unless of course you already did this) The resistance of the original wire might be up to 2 ohms of more....just a guess. YES! when I did it the first time I used like CB radio resisters. There is actually a very low watt usage for the coils, and if you get a 1.5 ohm 25w resister they are in an aluminum heat sink, and they will never over heat in this application. The ohms through the coil is irrelevant in this situation, as it is the primary resistance that needs to be right in order to not over load the cdi. you would check ohs through the coil just to check that the coil its self is good. I think that will be different for every model of coil. If the 454 was a dual fire coil like a triumph, or a kz750 twin, where the spark events were 360 degrees apart then you could wire the coils in series and not use a resister. (this is what I will do in my zx6 motor) but since this is a 180 degree motor it needs single fire coils, and therefor needs a resister.
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Post by zekkfett on Feb 23, 2012 11:58:40 GMT -6
The ohms through the coil is irrelevant in this situation, as it is the primary resistance that needs to be right in order to not over load the cdi. Gotcha.
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Post by chopperfreak2k1 on Feb 23, 2012 13:09:18 GMT -6
the info in this thread is unbelievable. i just wish i could understand it, LOL.
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