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Post by ibuiltmine on Feb 23, 2012 21:16:10 GMT -6
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mradam
Junior Member
Posts: 214
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Post by mradam on Feb 23, 2012 21:47:49 GMT -6
Thats a nice piece. think a few feet of wire would add enough resitance to be an issue?
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Post by ibuiltmine on Feb 23, 2012 21:53:13 GMT -6
Thats a nice piece. think a few feet of wire would add enough resistance to be an issue? a few feet of wire? you should only have to add like 6 inches. I would use some small self tapping sheet metal screws and mount these pretty much where the stock coils used to be. Im not sure what the resistance of wire is, man. In this situation it is negligible. The temperature of the hot day would probably have more effect on the ohms of the circuit then a few extra inches of wire. A multi meter is a must in any garage.
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Post by zekkfett on Feb 23, 2012 22:44:11 GMT -6
Most of it is basic electronics. Once you understand a few simple circuits and how they work, it'll come to you. Most people wouldn't believe how easy it actually is to wire a bike.
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Post by Pooh on Feb 23, 2012 22:59:05 GMT -6
"quite a power gain" ok i may be missing somthing here but other the removeing the ugly coils what do we gain ?
how much power ? what kind of power ? and do you have a gusse on price for the cop?
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Post by chopperfreak2k1 on Feb 24, 2012 4:04:34 GMT -6
well technically i don't know any numbers as far as power gained. but this mod is one i wanna do because the COP's are said to offer a stronger spark than our current set-up.
the potential power increase comes from that stronger spark because a stonger spark can burn more fuel mix faster.
this is why a stout ignition is desireable in racing applications.
the COP's i found were 3 for $22 plus shipping for used and north of $125 a piece for new i think it was.
any time you can stuff more air and fuel mix in the cylinder and burn it adequetly there will be a power gain. how much gain i don't know.
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Post by zekkfett on Feb 24, 2012 8:42:36 GMT -6
There are a few advantages to this setup. It's not complex, no plug wires to change, denser spark closer to the ignition source, and most importantly for someone like me; it would be a more "complete" burn making it more efficient. = more MPG.
I have many reasons for riding, I LOVE it, but higher on MY list of needs in a bike than most other peoples'; is efficiency. I may look like a dork on my girl's Rebel, but that beast gets 75MPG, AVERAGE. The lowest it has ever been is 55MPG. Highest, 125MPG. I pay 5 bucks to go 145+ miles. I'm hoping to get 55-60MPG out of the 454; hopefully more. I'm pretty easy on my bikes.
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Post by ibuiltmine on Feb 24, 2012 13:07:50 GMT -6
Very good arguments guys! yes, the COP's will not give you a turbo boost. They are just one more cog in the wheel of higher performance. With a hotter spark you can open up the gap a little more, and have more spark and ignite more of the fuel faster and more completely. If it gives you a power gain, it will give you better throttle response, and more off the line torque from a faster burn in the cylinder.
If you watch you can get those things for like less then 10 bucks each. They are one of those things I just watch out for and grab when I see them cheap. I wouldn't buy new ones. the used ones are just as good.
I have wired a few bikes now, and I always start out with the stock harness and I just start dissecting it. I get the whole wire harness in my head. I have the manual by me to check wire colors. It is one of those things that is kind of trial and error. I use a lot of spare chunks of wire and wire nuts. The 454/ninja bikes are pretty basic still. same type of wiring as the older bikes. I am going to even wire in teh anti dive valve to my front brakes on the 454!
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mradam
Junior Member
Posts: 214
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Post by mradam on Feb 24, 2012 13:32:26 GMT -6
I was thinking of mounting up under the sear right next to the cid,.
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Post by ibuiltmine on Feb 24, 2012 13:41:09 GMT -6
I was thinking of mounting up under the sear right next to the cid,. I seriously considered that, but then I thought that it should have more airflow across the fins. I think you could hit it with some black spray paint and screw it to the back bone and they would all but disappear.
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Post by Pooh on Feb 24, 2012 15:41:51 GMT -6
anti dive valve? ,,,,, what is the anti dive valve?
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mradam
Junior Member
Posts: 214
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Post by mradam on Feb 24, 2012 16:10:33 GMT -6
anti dive valve? ,,,,, what is the anti dive valve? That is a porpotioning vavle in the forks to aid in reducing the amount the forks compress during breaking.
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Post by chopperfreak2k1 on Feb 24, 2012 16:16:57 GMT -6
what dont you understand, man? well to be honest i am understanding the info you guys are giving, but marginally. i feel i can put this set-up together pretty easily since given the blueprint but on my own i would have never figured this stuff out. i just don't do electrical. primary resistance and ohms and the like sounds like voo doo magic to me. i understand things like compression, lift, duration, rotating mass, etc.
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Post by ibuiltmine on Feb 24, 2012 16:21:54 GMT -6
what dont you understand, man? well to be honest i am understanding the info you guys are giving, but marginally. i feel i can put this set-up together pretty easily since given the blueprint but on my own i would have never figured this stuff out. i just don't do electrical. primary resistance and ohms and the like sounds like voo doo magic to me. i understand things like compression, lift, duration, rotating mass, etc. so you probably not going to venture into an efi conversion on a 454??? LOL!
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Post by eaglerider on Feb 24, 2012 16:28:24 GMT -6
EFI? ? Don't look for that from me!!!!! LOL
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Post by Blaine on Feb 24, 2012 16:40:00 GMT -6
what dont you understand, man? well to be honest i am understanding the info you guys are giving, but marginally. i feel i can put this set-up together pretty easily since given the blueprint but on my own i would have never figured this stuff out. i just don't do electrical. primary resistance and ohms and the like sounds like voo doo magic to me. i understand things like compression, lift, duration, rotating mass, etc. Don't feel bad.I'm pretty well,in the same boat!!! ;D
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Post by ibuiltmine on Feb 24, 2012 16:42:33 GMT -6
the hardest part would be welding the fuel pump into stock tank and making it look halfway decent and hidden. here is a hand made plate for putting a harley in tank fuel pump into any tank. the one i helped a friednd with used an efi unit from a 700 raptor and microsquirt
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Post by chopperfreak2k1 on Feb 24, 2012 18:39:32 GMT -6
show off!!!
efi sounds great and if i had someone walk me through it i could do it no problem. my biggest obstacle is i'm a visual learner so reading what you guys say is a bit hard for me to understand.
i have to take the time to visualize what is being explained and sometimes it's hard when i'm not familiar with the parts and pieces being used and described.
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Post by chopperfreak2k1 on Feb 24, 2012 18:44:14 GMT -6
in fact let me take a min to see if i fully understand this COP conversion.
so i remove my coils and plug wires. wire the resistors inline to the COP's and that's pretty much it?
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Post by ibuiltmine on Feb 24, 2012 19:52:24 GMT -6
in fact let me take a min to see if i fully understand this COP conversion. so i remove my coils and plug wires. wire the resistors inline to the COP's and that's pretty much it? yep. sounds like your wrapping your head around it! if you tackle it, just remember that it is pretty temporary mod. If you do something wrong, or it does not work it is just as simple to put everything back stock as your not doing major modifications to anything permanently.
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Post by zekkfett on Feb 24, 2012 21:24:50 GMT -6
EFI would be amazing...... The layout itself wouldn't be that hard, fab wouldn't be that hard, but programming the ECU.....whew...And I'm the nerd over here.....
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Post by ibuiltmine on Feb 25, 2012 1:16:02 GMT -6
EFI would be amazing...... The layout itself wouldn't be that hard, fab wouldn't be that hard, but programming the ECU.....whew...And I'm the nerd over here..... nah. You can find a base map no problem. I'd just use like a base map for a Polaris razor or something then you just take it easy and data log then tweak and log more. Your running just an alpha n it would be super easy. Tell u what, this screaming eagle power tuner has me spoiled! That stuff is slick!
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Post by chopperfreak2k1 on Feb 25, 2012 2:58:15 GMT -6
EFI would be amazing...... The layout itself wouldn't be that hard, fab wouldn't be that hard, but programming the ECU.....whew...And I'm the nerd over here..... nah. You can find a base map no problem. I'd just use like a base map for a Polaris razor or something then you just take it easy and data log then tweak and log more. Your running just an alpha n it would be super easy. Tell u what, this screaming eagle power tuner has me spoiled! That stuff is slick! there you guys go sayin the craziest chit again!!
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Post by ibuiltmine on Feb 25, 2012 10:23:35 GMT -6
alpha N is the simplest form of EFI. It uses a graph where ever alpha (RPM) crosses N (Throttle position) the injectors dump that amount of fuel. So all you need to do is have an electric rpm signal (which the 454 has) and a throttle position sensor. www.ebay.com/itm/08-YAMAHA-RAPTOR-700-THROTTLE-BODY-INJECTOR-THROTTLE-POSITION-SENSOR-TPS-/290675307573?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item43ad993435this would be perftct as it has everything needed. just make a 2 into 1 intake. the only thing that alpha n does not do is compensate for altitude. for that you just need a MAP sensor (which that raptor throttle body does) and you can run a speed density efi computer which is just alpha n, but compensates for altitude with the map sensor. Anything can be done to pretty much any motor. I had a buddy at school of mines in rapid city that built a turbo, efi, nitro methane 5hp briggs and stratton motor! that hting was putting like 50hp out on the dyno. The 454 motor is a great, strong and surprisingly modern motor that is capable of carrying any of these upgrades! its got a great sister motor(the 900 and 600 ninja) so you can get pistons, and head work, etc. you can probably make a set of 900 cams work in the 450 if you know how to tig weld.
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Post by chopperfreak2k1 on Feb 25, 2012 10:51:35 GMT -6
i'd just love to know what you know. maybe over this summer i can buy up all theparts and pieces and you could walk me through it?
i know i can get 80+ hp outta this motor and be a light weight speed demon. i'd be VERY interested in what head work you felt could be done aside from a 3 angle valve job and a shave, which is all i know about.
the 900 cams are a great idea too and the welding could be farmed out i suppose. man i wish i had your knowledge and ability!! maybe i should move to wyoming? LOL
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Post by ibuiltmine on Feb 25, 2012 10:58:47 GMT -6
Colorado is where its at man! Im actually hoping to move to Austin TX in a year or so. Just seems like a cool place.
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Post by chopperfreak2k1 on Feb 25, 2012 12:01:25 GMT -6
why the heck did i think you were in wyoming?
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Post by ibuiltmine on Feb 25, 2012 12:10:31 GMT -6
why the heck did i think you were in wyoming? I live in Cheyenne, like 10 miles from Colorado. Spend most of my free time in Colorado. That's where the rides ar and the parts and most of the motorcycle guys I j Know. Evyine in Wyoming is too busy working and surviving to be into bikes. Life's a little easier in Colorado for some reason
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Post by eaglerider on Feb 25, 2012 14:08:13 GMT -6
;D ;D IBM... Come on down!! Austin is about 80 miles from me!! Now ya know 80 miles down here in South Texas is not like 80 miles where u are!! LOL Would love to meet u!!
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Post by ibuiltmine on Feb 25, 2012 14:40:44 GMT -6
;D ;D IBM... Come on down!! Austin is about 80 miles from me!! Now ya know 80 miles down here in South Texas is not like 80 miles where u are!! LOL Would love to meet u!! you in san antonio? Were planing on taking hte kids down there and hanging out for a while, and also planning on riding down that way with a buddy one time this summer.
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