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Post by pitrage on Nov 6, 2013 10:01:20 GMT -6
I am posting here to answer multiple peoples issues with something to look into. I have found multiple post where the persons lights and all come on but bike wont start with the button. The things to check which most of these people have done before posting are..
1. Battery charge
2. Ignition switch (wiggle while attempting to start and check ohms)
3. Start button (ensure circuit when pressed and no circuit when not pressed)
4. On/Off switch (circuit when on no circuit when off)
5. Check grounds (clean and check condition of wires)
6. Solenoid (bench check to ensure its functioning instructions are in other posts)
7. Attempt to jump solenoid or starter (I jump the starter)
What I am seeing is that people have been getting to this point and everything checks out correctly and then they are stuck and no one knows what advice to give to help finish trouble shooting the issues so the people are running in circles with no idea what to do. Thing is there is one thing people forget to check and people forget to tell people to check. In the ignition system there are two relays. The starter relay and the solenoid. When you look at the solenoid the starter relay is towards the rear of the bike about 2 inches and is further back surrounded by black rubber. You can easily miss it when looking for it but follow the wires from the solenoid and it goes straight to it.
The way to check the starter relay is to jump it. I use heavy gauge wire and make the jumper. Use its jumped attempt to start the bike. If the bike starts it is the starter relay. Now about fixing the problem. The starter relay is a useless part. Its job is to activate the solenoid when the button is pressed. So think of it this way. The solenoid is a relay. So its a relay to activate a relay. (poor engineering) Now to fix this problem you will search the part and find out that they no longer make the starter relay and if you find one they are ridiculously priced. So to fix the issue you simply cut the wires running to the starter relay and solder them together. Magic the bike will now run as if that solenoid was still in place.
It took me a month of trouble shooting to figure this simple problem and fix out. Having the same issues of people not knowing how to offer advice due to everything that people normally think of already being checked off. Hope this helps everyone out.
-Pitrage
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lamestlame
Junior Member
So I am recovering from an accident I had on my ninja. More bonding time with my trusty ol 454 ;)
Posts: 220
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Post by lamestlame on Jan 19, 2014 5:16:27 GMT -6
It's the two wires running from the solenoid to the relay right? The smaller wires?
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Post by eaglerider on Jan 19, 2014 11:52:24 GMT -6
To test the selenoid, jump the two large posts on the solenoid...which, in effect, is the same as running the positive cable from the battery directly to the starter.
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lamestlame
Junior Member
So I am recovering from an accident I had on my ninja. More bonding time with my trusty ol 454 ;)
Posts: 220
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Post by lamestlame on Jan 19, 2014 16:33:03 GMT -6
I want to bypass the relay. I don't know which wires I need to solder together. Is it the small ones that run from the relay to the solenoid? I don't want to just chop wires and end up frying something else. Any help will be appreciated. Thank you eagle.
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Post by pitrage on Jan 20, 2014 21:56:56 GMT -6
Its the two small wires that go into the relay. Those are the ones I cut and soldered together. Depending on the snow in the morning I will attempt to take a pic and post it for you. And I appologize for any delay. My phone didnt notify me like normal. I just jumped on to see how everyone was doing.
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lamestlame
Junior Member
So I am recovering from an accident I had on my ninja. More bonding time with my trusty ol 454 ;)
Posts: 220
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Post by lamestlame on Jan 28, 2014 0:42:05 GMT -6
Thanks pitrage any and all help will be greatly appreciated
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Post by pitrage on Jan 29, 2014 6:17:19 GMT -6
Im trying to be able to get back to the bike. Life and weather have been sucky. But it is still on my list. Please dont think I forgot about you.
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Post by buttarz on Mar 29, 2014 15:35:26 GMT -6
I jumped my black and black white together and now it just keeps turning over when i put the cables on the battery is this normal?
Should i be jumping the black and yellow ones instead?
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lamestlame
Junior Member
So I am recovering from an accident I had on my ninja. More bonding time with my trusty ol 454 ;)
Posts: 220
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Post by lamestlame on Apr 2, 2014 19:54:46 GMT -6
Are you trying to bypass the starter relay?
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Post by buttarz on Apr 8, 2014 4:24:55 GMT -6
Yeah to bypass the 4prong circuit relay which wires do i ground and which do i put together?
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lamestlame
Junior Member
So I am recovering from an accident I had on my ninja. More bonding time with my trusty ol 454 ;)
Posts: 220
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Post by lamestlame on Apr 19, 2014 16:05:36 GMT -6
Not sure if you have figured it out but try the other way. I can't really tell on the colors as I have a after market solenoid.
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divot
New Member
Voices in my head>Battle of Disarm
Posts: 61
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Post by divot on Mar 1, 2015 20:52:35 GMT -6
I know this thread is quite old, but has yet to be decisively answered, so... Once I get back to my back tomorrow Ill figure it out and post next time I get on site.
I was really relieved when I read this post tonite and found out I am not the only one to see this circuits redundancy. I have been seriously looking at the starting circuit for the last 3 hours trying to figure out why there are 2 relays in series. Only reasoning I came up with is it might put less wear on the main relay/solenoid. I did order a new relay for $6 (direct OEM) . So if the circuit works fine once I put that on I'll leave it, but if I have a problem again in the future-jumper city.
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penny
New Member
Posts: 3
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Post by penny on Mar 12, 2015 14:55:10 GMT -6
Greetings... I'm new to the forum and appreciate the helpful information I've received already.
I've got a couple of gremlins on my 1990 that I bought last year. I've got a rusty left rear turn signal that I have purchased the replacement for... still waiting.
The main reason I'm on this thread though is the ignition gremlin. My key is really starting to bend and in order to start I have to turn the bike to "on" and then while wiggling the key with one hand I have to push the start button. I'm worried that the ignition will slip to off while I'm riding so I'd like to get this gremlin taken care of asap. Should I just replace the ignition (and keys) or ? I was thinking of some sort of keyless ignition and just replace the back brake key compartment with a different latch. (Not in a heavy crime area and the bike is always garaged when at home).
I've seen on other threads that Eagle has been copiously sharing some ignition wiring diagram... how would this help me with my ignition issue?
Thanks in advance for help. I really enjoy riding my 454 and looking forward to it again soon.
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Post by Blaine on Mar 12, 2015 15:12:49 GMT -6
The OEM switch is hard ti find.The diaghram shows how to wire in a standard key switch without hacking up the wiring.It can't be shared on the forum But I can P.m. you a copy if you need it.
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Post by eaglerider on Mar 13, 2015 8:29:33 GMT -6
PM penny one for me, please, Blaine. I have had to re-load my computer, and have not gone back and reloaded a lot of my "kept" stuff......gotta get that done.
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penny
New Member
Posts: 3
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Post by penny on Mar 13, 2015 9:08:26 GMT -6
If it's still possible I would love the wiring info, please
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Post by Blaine on Mar 13, 2015 15:28:16 GMT -6
If it's still possible I would love the wiring info, please P.M sent.
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Post by ant480 on Apr 24, 2015 20:47:17 GMT -6
so im new to the forum world but i hope that maybe the dude with a eagle as a avatar or anybody could pm what ever that means the most basic just on and off momentury push button lights wired in with kill switch and then the recectifier diagram im stupmed i get spark and crank and lights bottom still wont start and the positive to push button startted to catch fire 454 86 ltd kawasaki please this is killing me
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Post by pitrage on Apr 25, 2015 20:21:59 GMT -6
Sounds like you need to start chasing electrical shorts and working through replacing wires
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards
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Post by gambler936 on Apr 28, 2015 18:49:59 GMT -6
Hey guys so i cut out the relay like the post said and now im having another problem. Now when i turn the key to the on position the bike starts to crank by it self. the kill switch is off and I am not pressing the start button. any one know what this could be and how to fix it?
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Post by eaglerider on Apr 29, 2015 7:05:55 GMT -6
apparently, you connected the wrong wires...the battery is now connected directly to the starter when you turn on the key. By chance, did you connect the selonoid wires, rather than the relay??....they sit side by side.
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Post by gambler936 on Apr 30, 2015 12:14:41 GMT -6
What I did was cut the relay off and spliced the 4 wires together like pitrage told me to.
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lamestlame
Junior Member
So I am recovering from an accident I had on my ninja. More bonding time with my trusty ol 454 ;)
Posts: 220
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Post by lamestlame on Apr 30, 2015 20:11:25 GMT -6
If I remember correctly make sure not all four are together. I had that problem maybe just flip the wires and see how that work
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Post by gambler936 on May 1, 2015 15:42:35 GMT -6
Alright ill play around with the wires and see what happens
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lamestlame
Junior Member
So I am recovering from an accident I had on my ninja. More bonding time with my trusty ol 454 ;)
Posts: 220
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Post by lamestlame on May 3, 2015 17:33:03 GMT -6
Any luck?
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Post by gambler936 on May 5, 2015 12:47:21 GMT -6
The bike stopped trying to start it self but the now the only thing that turns on when I turn the key is the oil light
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Post by gambler936 on May 5, 2015 12:48:23 GMT -6
The battery is fine I have it on a tender and I tested with multimeter
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lamestlame
Junior Member
So I am recovering from an accident I had on my ninja. More bonding time with my trusty ol 454 ;)
Posts: 220
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Post by lamestlame on May 8, 2015 23:04:03 GMT -6
Do you have a diagram of the wiring? A manual for the bike?
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lamestlame
Junior Member
So I am recovering from an accident I had on my ninja. More bonding time with my trusty ol 454 ;)
Posts: 220
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Post by lamestlame on Jun 25, 2015 0:11:05 GMT -6
Hey sorry been gone for a while still recovering from my wreck any luck on the ol bike?
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Post by gearenvy on Nov 22, 2015 12:02:29 GMT -6
What's up? New to the forum,really like the beginning of this post... I was thinkin after two days of chasing my tail an bein awake all night thinkin bout that stupid lil buzz button with the 4 prong plug before the solenoid that I was actually gonna find a answer or reason for that lame lil worthless thing that's somehow shutting my poor bike down?? But alas,I get to the end and still no solid end to the question. Not knocking the post at all,I'm new so forgive me,its just it started out strong,awesome remedy to junk that thing,but there's still pieces of questions in the air.... What... No, WHY is that thing?? (solid question eh?) Against all better judgment,cuzz if its on the bike from 1985 it has to be important right?? I found that thing while gently tapping the start button cuz I wasn't getn any sounds but my lights were BRIGHT,batteries 3 weeks old an bikes been started 4 times with battery unhooked after. But pushin the start button with my hand on the rear peg I FELT a tiny somethin?? So get my ear down there and yep very very tiny half a click or point? Whatever the wimpy sound that thing makes?? So I found it wrapped in a rubber sleeve,an sure enough u can feel it click when u hit the button? So I took it off to test it like one of my books says an I cannot believe something that weak could even start a hotwheel sized motor?? I cleaned it,tapped it,rapped it good on my vice hoping that click would become audible...nope,ting..thats it?? Held it in my hand randomly hooking wires from a old car battery to it,cuz I ain't messin up my new battery,and just a lil tic?? Did the same with the solenoid after pluggin that thing back in,nice loud click,clickity click from that!! Those thingsll bounce round the bench,kinda fun lol. But I cleaned,hooked all back up,still just that tiny tic from the thing?? But I jumped the solenoid with a screwdriver and my bike roared to life(mufflers off,putting different ones on) but jumping the solenoid the starter has never sounded or spun as good as it did then?? I just got the bike couple months ago. Was my uncles and he obsessively cared for the bike. Notes all through the books(and hidden on the bike...kerazy..lol), but nah,back to the post.... Anyone ever figure out which of the four wires get connected together and which get grounded?? Or hooked elsewhere,or... I seriously am very interested in finding out cuz I would love to chuck that "thing" into my box of wonders...(garbage? ) so was there an outcome?? Which colors an shapes go where?? Or just keep hittin it till it fits?? Excuse if ima lil nutty?? I'm low on all fluids,batteries half dead,and I'm workin on my bike with a fractured back an no chair,and workin on my truck,car,and one 3 wheeler that I reluctantly have to sell... Why I'm not in bed?? Disabled,stay at home Dad,3 daughters,one just had a birthday sleepover,wife's at work,so only safe place is the moon or the garage...pick one?? I did. ? peace yall. Take it to the limit..always forward,never straight,late.
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