Won’t start

[ncdiesel]

Now that the starter clutch is fixed, I’ll start a new thread for the bike not starting. I am getting nothing but some weak pops every few seconds from the exhaust when I try to start it. I don’t believe it to be fuel because adding starting fluid really doesn’t make much difference: the pops might be a bit louder but that’s it.

So I pulled the igniter and took all the resistance readings per the manual. Two or three pins were always culprits and resulted in resistance readings that were way too high(though not infinite).

So I’m at least convinced that trying to getting a new igniter would be worthwhile: but all I see are used ones on eBay? Are there really no new old stock or aftermarket replacements available? I don’t wanna pay 100 bucks for somebody used junk.

[Blaine]

I would think you will have a hard time finding NOS & there is no aftermarket that I know for the ignitor.

[pya977]

carmoelectroins here in the uk sell them new. maybe of some help as it seems they fit other models
Improved Kawasaki EN450 454LTD CDI igniter 21119-1163 21119-1219
3 Year warranty
Plug&Play

Also for:
Kawasaki ZX500R CDI
Kawasaki GPZ500R CDI
Kawasaki EN400 Vulcan CDI
Kawasaki EX400 Ninja CDI
Kawasaki GPZ400S CDI
Kawasaki EN450LTD CDI
Kawasaki EN454 CDI
Kawasaki EN450 CDI
Kawasaki EN500 Vulcan CDI
Kawasaki EX500 Ninja CDI
Kawasaki GPZ500S CDI
1986 1987 1988 1989 1990 1991 1992

[ncdiesel]

Thanks! Shortly after your post I also found a seller on eBay with these aftermarket igniters:

www.ebay.com/itm/231137573353

This one is a little more affordable. I’m still torn: maybe gamble 80 bucks to get a used unit? I can always upgrade in the future to new with some hope of long term reliability after I get this thing running exactly the way I want to. Or do I just completely skip all that hassle and get one of these new after markets?

Probably go with used. Especially since I’m not sure if this bike is going to stay in my possession for more than another year or two.

[ncdiesel]

So I bought a used igniter on eBay and I got it in the mail today.  While the resistance readings were better/right than my old one the bike still won't start.   While waiting on the igniter I checked the resistance of the primary and secondary wiring of the coils and they were good.   Installed the igniter and used a spark tester set at 4 mm gap (less than the manual recommended distance of 7mm but the widest I could get) and the spark was nice and a hot looking blueish white on both cylinders.

But I can smell gas from the exhaust so gas is going through the system and starting fluid doesn't help.  Again - cold compression is an even 135psi  on both sides

Not even sure where to start next.   Any pointers?

Thanks in advance!

[ncdiesel]

Success! The whole thing just seemed so much like timing to me that I swapped the coil wires on a lark. Started right up. I want you to know that for a 1989 LTD 454 version 5 the Kawasaki service manual is completely wrong. You need to put the coil wire pair with the green negative on number one and the pair with the black wire on number two.

If I had paid attention to the way the wires came off when I did the valve adjustment instead of relying on the manual this would’ve never happened.


Sheesh.

[ncdiesel]

So I’ve been taking the bike on ever widening test runs. Took a gorgeous spring late afternoon ride through the North Carolina countryside today. Bike runs like a dream.

Just wanted to post this to say thanks to all the folks who help me along the way with the starter clutch in the stubborn motor.

[automaticjack]

I'e been having a similar issue with an 1985 454 LTD that I got a few weeks ago. I have decent spark on new plugs and around 3 ohms on both coils, fresh gas and a clean petcock. Fuel is reaching the bowls. A shot of carb cleaner doesn't even elicit a pop.

The bike was reportedly driven to the shop -- not a motorcycle place but a general used goods place -- just a few weeks ago, so unsure why it would be so hesitant to fire when I have some degree of spark, and fuel at least to the bowls of the carbs.

The intake box had been taken off by the guy who last rode it, and is still off. I've read elsewhere that the EN450 made not like to start without the intake box on, since it would be running a bit lean. 

To get the intake box back on, I would have to take the carbs off, and that would be the chance to open them up and see if they are so gummed up to prevent running.

Am I missing other angles, like setting the valve clearance, or possible issues with the stator coils or timing issues with the igniter?

[knoizy]

There's a couple of electronic lockouts from the kill switch, clutch, maybe side stand (can't remember) but I suspect if you're seeing a healthy spark it should be OK on the electrics. I'd definitely commit to a carb clean and rebuild at this point you'd want to know that is all good, and as mentioned fit the airbox with new filters. I'd remove the tank, hook up a temp fuel bottle, set the valves and accept there's a bit of tuning to do once she does fire up. Some basics worth a check - trim the plug leads back to a bit of fresh copper, try a healthy car battery as sometimes being slightly under cranking amps can be a starting problem. Maybe remove the generator cover to be sure the starter chain and clutch are working ok. Hopefully you've not got the emissions kit fitted, complete PITA for access.

[automaticjack]

Feb 11, 2022 19:44:22 GMT -6 knoizy said:

There's a couple of electronic lockouts from the kill switch, clutch, maybe side stand (can't remember) but I suspect if you're seeing a healthy spark it should be OK on the electrics. I'd definitely commit to a carb clean and rebuild at this point you'd want to know that is all good, and as mentioned fit the airbox with new filters. I'd remove the tank, hook up a temp fuel bottle, set the valves and accept there's a bit of tuning to do once she does fire up. Some basics worth a check - trim the plug leads back to a bit of fresh copper, try a healthy car battery as sometimes being slightly under cranking amps can be a starting problem. Maybe remove the generator cover to be sure the starter chain and clutch are working ok. Hopefully you've not got the emissions kit fitted, complete PITA for access.

Carbs were surprisingly clean, but cleaned out all the jets and needles and have a rebuild kit on the way so will replace the diaphragms, gaskets and jets just to eliminate that as a hard start cause. The real PITA is getting the carbs in and out with the air intake box. I know you can push the intake box boots in to get a bit of clearance but what a fight.

What should I be looking for in the starter chain and starter clutch? Should I be inspecting the pickup coils in there? BTW, I measure 11v at the coils with the key on, is that sufficient?

On the fuel front, just not seeing any gas getting into the cylinders, even when the float bowls are full.

Someone in the FB 454 group with a very similar no-start issue ultimately found that the automatic cam chain tensioner on his bike was faulty and putting too much tension on the cam chain.  Would that prevent enough vacuum to draw air/fuel into the cylinder? I was going to remove the CCT and just inspect and reset it according to the manual.

[knoizy]

Carb rubbers - hair drier will soften them up and pop to half way and someone here invented a tin lid with string device for the same trick.

Starter clutch - just observe to check its cranking properly. You can usually hear it slipping when its worn anyway.

Not sure about the cam chain tension, could be. I'd hope that with the carbs clean and valves set you should be in a good place.