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Post by ctros11 on Aug 3, 2020 17:34:25 GMT -6
Hey everybody. I'm somewhat new to the forum. I am always reading it but I'm just about giving in on my project bike so I created a username. This is my first bike so I bought a 200 dollar bike with a clean title. I figured it was a steal and I could learn more about it as I work on getting it running. The last owner wasnt mechanically inclined but showed me it used to run and notes from a mechanic saying its issue is electrical more than likely. Professionally I work as an industrial heavy machinery mechanic so I was fairly certain I'd have it running, but I still don't.
So far I've tested all the start components and they seem to be working. Where my reader is telling me the fault is is in the ignition switch. The yellow wire specifically is not pulling equally. I'm not sure the technical specs but I'm fairly sure the yellow wire is the issue. When I turn the key on all the electrical works but when I hit the start button nothing. No clicks or anything.
First I cleaned up all the splices and connectors and cleaned the harnesses. No luck. changed the starter relays anyway for new ones. No luck. Bought a parts bike and switched out the ignition switch. No luck. Should I be looking at the ignition switch or the on/off switch?
At this point I want to replace whichever the culprit is with a toggle switch since I can easily swipe one from work.
Anyone else have this issue or switch either part for a toggle?
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Post by ctros11 on Aug 4, 2020 13:36:33 GMT -6
Went ahead and replaced the ignition and the run switch with toggle switches. Wired a separate momentary contact switch too. Had some luck with the ignition switch but not the others so I'm assuming it has a broken wire along the line.
I was able to jump the starter now at least though. Its turning but not turning over.
You can here the starter clutch spinning but the top end of the motor is making a plunger noise. It reminds me of the old toy shot guns that when you pumped it made the plunging noise with the air.
Anyone have any idea? I do have a video but I'm not sure how to upload it.
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Post by knoizy on Aug 4, 2020 16:09:50 GMT -6
Lockouts - if you have the wiring diagram make sure the electronics are not preventing starting. I can't remember in detail but think there's the kill switch, clutch, side stand and maybe neutral switch on this bike.
Plunger sound - my first guess is that's just compressed air finding its way out of the cylinders. If you hand turn the crankshaft at a reasonable speed you might hear the same thing.
Plugs - fit new plugs anyway and trim 1/4 inch of HT copper back on the connectors but also try starting/cranking with no plugs. If the plunger sound is still there with the plugs removed then its something else.
Starter clutch - remove the generator cover and observe the starting system. If the crankshaft isn't turning then forget the compressed air idea above and move on. The starter clutch should make good purchase on the crankshaft and turn smoothly until the engine is started. If there's any issues here you might have a crack in the clutch or worn springs/bearings. To service this you'll need a flywheel puller and strap wrench (or equivalents), the starter clutch hex bolts are usually threadlocked (blow torch job) and be careful you do not want to cross thread the crankshaft or anything else down there.
You might have more than one problem and it might also be none of the above, but work through each part of the system methodically and you will figure it out.
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Post by ctros11 on Aug 4, 2020 16:49:44 GMT -6
Lockouts - if you have the wiring diagram make sure the electronics are not preventing starting. I can't remember in detail but think there's the kill switch, clutch, side stand and maybe neutral switch on this bike. Plunger sound - my first guess is that's just compressed air finding its way out of the cylinders. If you hand turn the crankshaft at a reasonable speed you might hear the same thing. Plugs - fit new plugs anyway and trim 1/4 inch of HT copper back on the connectors but also try starting/cranking with no plugs. If the plunger sound is still there with the plugs removed then its something else. Starter clutch - remove the generator cover and observe the starting system. If the crankshaft isn't turning then forget the compressed air idea above and move on. The starter clutch should make good purchase on the crankshaft and turn smoothly until the engine is started. If there's any issues here you might have a crack in the clutch or worn springs/bearings. To service this you'll need a flywheel puller and strap wrench (or equivalents), the starter clutch hex bolts are usually threadlocked (blow torch job) and be careful you do not want to cross thread the crankshaft or anything else down there. You might have more than one problem and it might also be none of the above, but work through each part of the system methodically and you will figure it out. Thanks for the advice. I already went over most of that stuff. The last owner showed me a video of the noise it was making before I dismantled it and I thought it was a start clutch issue. This afternoon I kept giving it 5 second intervals on the starter and the noise went away more and more. Now I'm looking into other reasons. I left the gas on pri for 2 hours came back out and didnt see or smell any gas leaking. So I'm thinking I dont have a good fuel/ air ratio due to the lack of fuel. I also tested the ignition coils and got good readings. Didnt bother checking for spark I put new plugs in right after I was able to get it turning and the coils were good so I'm assuming they're working properly.
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Post by eaglerider on Aug 5, 2020 10:37:46 GMT -6
Remember...there is a left side and right side positive and negative wiring for the coils, if they are not wired right, the engine will not fire right. You need to insure you have spark at the plugs. Here in the US, when we say the engine "turns over" it means the crankshaft is turning, but the engine is not starting. From some posts I have read, in the UK, "turning over", seems to mean starting...some times some confusion is the result.
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Post by ctros11 on Aug 5, 2020 14:42:26 GMT -6
Remember...there is a left side and right side positive and negative wiring for the coils, if they are not wired right, the engine will not fire right. You need to insure you have spark at the plugs. Here in the US, when we say the engine "turns over" it means the crankshaft is turning, but the engine is not starting. From some posts I have read, in the UK, "turning over", seems to mean starting...some times some confusion is the result. Hey thanks for replying. I read a lot of your posts as a guest on the forum. Good stuff. Actually I saw your post on another thread with that advice so I went ahead and tried it. Problem is I was charging the battery, put a tool down perfectly and saw the flash of what used to be my main fuse. And the auto parts store is out of stock. Have you ever heard of retrofitting blades onto an older bike? They're alot easier to find in my area but I'm not sure how much the bike would agree with the change and I'm not finding much literature from people who've done it.
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Post by eaglerider on Aug 6, 2020 6:51:00 GMT -6
Replacing the main glass fuse with blade type is simple, and a good idea, as glass fuses are sometimes not readily available. You just cut out the old and solder in a new (recommend a weather proof) blade unit (use the same value fuse).
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Post by ctros11 on Sept 1, 2020 15:16:11 GMT -6
For those who have been following this thread, my bike is now running (barely.) It very obviously needs to have the carburetor adjusted at this point as well as other things such as brake fluid and the good stuff before I can test drive it safely.
I ended up getting frustrated and rewiring the entire low current starting circut, replacing all fuses with atc blades, rewiring and cleaning the cbuttons in the kill switch/start button. I left the toggle switch on in place of the ignition switch since I'm doing a bobber build and I feel like it was a safer bet seeing everyone elses issues with it. In addition to the electrical wiring I cleaned the carb again, cleaned all electrical contacts, shorted the safety switches and, cleaning the petcock filter.
It was a nice moment when it started the first try after I charged the battery, since when I bought it a year ago it was a box of parts with a naked frame. Couldnt have done it without the manuals I got from this forum thankfully.
If anyone has any questions about how I trouble shot anything or rewired it I will answer as best I can when I see the post.
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