New Member, New 454: Getting Her Started

[automaticjack]

Hey folks.

Just brought a 1985 home from a consignment shop in NJ. Came with title and price was right. The shop had it for about a week, and said that the guy they got it from rode it to the shop. So it was reportedly running recently.

The battery turns the starter, all lights and indicators work, including neutral switch and oil pressure. They never got it to fire, but suspected it might need valve lash adjustment.  The intake box was off the bike when the seller rode it to drop off at the shop.

Once I got it home I charged the battery and gave it a shot with some starting fluid. No action. I then drained the gas tank and used fresh fuel, checked the petcock and it was in good shape.


I tested the coils and both were right at 3.0-2.9 ohms, and the circuit to the spark plug was in spec (16K ohms).  Both plugs showed spark, which was orangish and one plug was a bit dirtier and more fouled than the other. I replaced the plugs and confirmed spark before trying again. I measured 11V at the coils when the key is on.


The carb bowls do fill but when I check the plugs after attempted starts, they seem dry, so don't seem to be getting fuel into the cylinders.  I've also used a jump pack on top of a freshly charged battery, to try and rule out a battery that wasn't delivering enough volts to ignite.


Today I took the carbs off and they were actually very clean. I tried a shot of carb cleaner into the naked intakes just to see if I could get a pop or brief start. Nothing.

The airbox was off the bike when I got it, and I've read that the 454 doesn't like to start without it on since it may be too lean, so that will be my next move when I put the carbs back on.


I haven't done a compression test yet, but definitely get a decent amount from the old finger over spark hole feel, and I can feel decent vacuum when I hold my hand over the carbs while trying to start.

I will probably try to adjust the valves next, but I'm running out of ideas for getting this thing to kick. The bike that was supposedly running -- with the airbox off -- just a few weeks ago, so I'm stumped on why I can't get it to even try to fire. 

Is the Igniter working properly if I'm getting spark and at least 11V at the coils with the key on?

One last note: I changed the oil, just to see its condition. It was pretty clear and fresh, and the bike is in overall pretty complete and original condition. I filled it to capacity through the inspection glass, but noticed that the oil pressure indicator light isn't turning off. Before changing the oil I would see the oil light turn off after a couple of seconds of cranking the starter.

[automaticjack]

UPDATE:  Since I couldn't get the bike to fire with all the previous efforts, I finally dove in to adjust the valves.

They were all tight, and after setting intakes to .006 and exhausts to .008, I gave it a quick shot and got the engine to finally and briefly bark to life (I also used an IV style auxiliary fuel rig since the tank is off and still unsure if the petcock vacuum was operating correctly).  When it did fire, I got a bit of a splash of oil everywhere since I wanted to see if valve clearance helped before wrestling the valve cover back on.

The airbox is off, so I got it to fire by covering the carb throats with some shop rags so that it wasn't overly lean at start.  Bike ran on half choke but wouldn't idle with choke off, so my next step is to to use the carb rebuild kit I bought. I had already checked the carbs, which were quite clean, but might as well throw the fresh jets and diaphragms on. I will also muscle through putting the carbs back with the airbox and filters, but it is such an annoying process.

I also buttoned up and refilled the coolant system and discovered the leaky 0-ring issue with the metal tubes that feed into the engine behind the spark plugs. Feared I was seeing a blown head gasket until I read up and saw that those old o-rings can cause coolant to piss out the weep hole on the cooling fins. Phew.

So any other advice on getting from first start to getting carbs to run right, idle well and get a good throttle response across the rev range?

I do have to say that finally hearing this baby make some noise was a relief after wondering if it was ever going to run....

[knoizy]

Good work! Hair drier on the carb rubbers prevents bleeding knuckles and swearing, you can also use a tin lid with string through the middle to pull the rubbers back to the half way pop. The carbs may need cleaning beyond a regular spray with cleaner etc, poke through the jet holes with a bit of wire, blast through all the ports with an airline, I've resorted to thinners to remove serious bits of gunk. My bet is with clean rebuilt carbs, floats set and airbox fitted she should fire up no problem. Maybe trim a bit of HT wire back and make sure the plugs are clean and within spec. Don't bother putting the tank on until you've got it running but block off any carb vac ports until then if you have a vac petcock. Careful with the choke I only ever needed 1/4 for the coldest of starts.

[automaticjack]

Thanks for the guidance.  Carb kit almost complete. The diaphragms were too small -- 62mm vs the 67mm required-- so trying to source the right size. The existing ones seem ok -- a bit stretched and one is a bit pinched in place -- so might also try a little rtv to ensure a seal.

I like the can lid trick to pull in the intake box. I've also ordered a couple of Emgo pod filters per eaglerider's post just to see if I can make those work in place of that balky airbox.

Also had to find new o-ring for one of the coolant pipes that goes in behind spark plug....was seeing some coolant weeping out, an issue I saw discussed in other posts. Put some lithium grease on it to enhance the seal. Both pipes were a bit corroded around both ends but hoses are tight.

[knoizy]

Pods - you could get lucky but unless you have a selection of jets and are prepared to cut springs and fit socks over them I'd suggest leave that one for now because you won't have a working reference to know what is cause and effect. It seems nobody ever got pods working well on their first attempt and I'd suggest getting the bike running with everything stock is the big win for now.