clutch springs or plates?

[brybo86]

I have an 86 454 that has 14k miles now, about 6k of which are mine.
Recently I have noticed the clutch lever needing to be released further and further away from the handle bar in order to engage. I have adjusted the clutch cable as per the manual but It hasn't changed much.

I loosen the lower nuts and pulled out all the slack, then I adjust freeplay at the lever. Didn't change much.

Right now It feels like the clutch is disengaging in the first 1/2inch of lever. Same with engaging, when I let out the lever it get almost to the end where there is a very short and abrupt engagement.

Do I need new springs or plates? or something else? I drive the bike primarily in the city, so lots of stop and go but with the engagement being so quick there isn't much slip at all.
Other than that the bike seems to be running fine. Thanks for your help in advance.

[zekkfett]

If you adjusted the cable at the transmission, and still had slack in the cable that you needed to adjust at the lever; you need a new cable. Unless you are really hard on the clutch, most bike clutches should last 20,000 to 30,000 miles.

The springs ONLY control how much pressure Is needed to pull in the lever. If you want an easier pull on the lever, you put in softer springs.

My guess: you need a new cable. If it is the original, it needs replaced anyway, before it breaks and leaves you stranded.

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[eaglerider]

Yes, the cable, over time, does stretch. Now, if you have been "slipping" the clutch a lot (letting it out easy and reving the engine excessively) while doing that, you could very easily worn the clutch plates down considerably, and need a clutch replacement...but a new cable is cheaper, so would go that route first.

[tinlizzie37]

My clutch is the same way, engaging at the end travel. It's been like this for four years, and hasn't caused any problems. I have 11,000 miles on her. Bob

[zekkfett]

This is not good on the clutch to have it engage at the end of the clutch lever. More than likely you're getting a small amount of slipping, whether you notice it or not. The heat from the slipping will glaze your clutch plates, and it will wear out sooner.

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[brybo86]

I adjusted the bottom and then loosened the top to add a little play.
could the cable be actively stretching every time I pull the lever? like a rubber band?
the clutch engagement is very abrupt so I do not think there is much slipping at all.

[eaglerider]

I would replace the clutch cable.

[zekkfett]

Aug 10, 2013 5:16:40 GMT -6 eaglerider said:

I would replace the clutch cable.

Agreed.

[brybo86]

do I need OEM or is motion pro brand fine?

[Blaine]

Aug 10, 2013 21:21:32 GMT -6 brybo86 said:

do I need OEM or is motion pro brand fine?

I always use Motion-pro.

[newyorkrider]

I don't mean to hijack the thread but what would be the solution to the problem if you change the cable and you still have this problem. The clutch only engages a half inch before completely releasing it. The odometer read 185,283 miles but that thing stopped working 5 years before i bought it so Im guessing i need new clutch plates?

[zekkfett]

Ok, so I just looked at the manual... And it's good for a lot of things, but the way they tell you to adjust the clutch cable... NOT the correct way to do it, so here is how you do it:

First, turn the adjuster at the lever ALL the way in. Clockwise. There should be NO threads showing on the adjuster. ALL the way in. Go to the right side of the bike, look down at the bottom of the cable. There are 2 nuts, one on the left side, one on the right (as you are looking at it from the right side of the bike). Loosen the left side nut all the way to the end of the threads (not off the threads), then do the same to the right side. This will set your cable as loose as it will possibly go. Reach up to the clutch lever and pull the slack out of the cable. The lever should stay back some, this is what you want. Go back to the bottom of the cable. Keep the left side nut all the way at the end of the threads, and start turning the right side nut clockwise (tightening it). Watch your clutch lever as you do this. You will start to see it move forward. The part the clutch lever attaches to on the bars, is called the clutch perch: as you see the lever move forward, keep adjusting until you have a gap about the thickness of 2 dimes together, between the end of the lever, and the clutch perch. This is about 1/8". This is called the "freeplay". If you cannot achieve the 1/8" of freeplay by ONLY adjusting the BOTTOM of the clutch cable, or you hit the left side nut before you get the 1/8" of freeplay, you need a new clutch cable. Once you get the 1/8" of freeplay, tighten the left side nut, this will lock your adjustment in place. Your clutch lever adjuster should NOT have been touched during this process. The ONLY thing that adjuster should be used for, is if you are out on the road and notice too much freeplay, then you can TEMPORARILY use this adjuster to adjust the freeplay, then once you get back home or somewhere you can properly adjust the cable, it should be adjusted at the bottom of the cable.

Make sense to everyone?

newyorkrider: If you do this adjustment process, and still have the same symptoms, it might be time for a new clutch, yes. Most likely though, this adjustment should get you where you need to be.

brybo86: Readjust your cable using this method, and see if you still are having issues.

[newyorkrider]

Aug 11, 2013 22:33:53 GMT -6 zekkfett said:

Ok, so I just looked at the manual... And it's good for a lot of things, but the way they tell you to adjust the clutch cable... NOT the correct way to do it, so here is how you do it:

First, turn the adjuster at the lever ALL the way in. Clockwise. There should be NO threads showing on the adjuster. ALL the way in. Go to the right side of the bike, look down at the bottom of the cable. There are 2 nuts, one on the left side, one on the right (as you are looking at it from the right side of the bike). Loosen the left side nut all the way to the end of the threads (not off the threads), then do the same to the right side. This will set your cable as loose as it will possibly go. Reach up to the clutch lever and pull the slack out of the cable. The lever should stay back some, this is what you want. Go back to the bottom of the cable. Keep the left side nut all the way at the end of the threads, and start turning the right side nut clockwise (tightening it). Watch your clutch lever as you do this. You will start to see it move forward. The part the clutch lever attaches to on the bars, is called the clutch perch: as you see the lever move forward, keep adjusting until you have a gap about the thickness of 2 dimes together, between the end of the lever, and the clutch perch. This is about 1/8". This is called the "freeplay". If you cannot achieve the 1/8" of freeplay by ONLY adjusting the BOTTOM of the clutch cable, or you hit the left side nut before you get the 1/8" of freeplay, you need a new clutch cable. Once you get the 1/8" of freeplay, tighten the left side nut, this will lock your adjustment in place. Your clutch lever adjuster should NOT have been touched during this process. The ONLY thing that adjuster should be used for, is if you are out on the road and notice too much freeplay, then you can TEMPORARILY use this adjuster to adjust the freeplay, then once you get back home or somewhere you can properly adjust the cable, it should be adjusted at the bottom of the cable.

Make sense to everyone?

newyorkrider: If you do this adjustment process, and still have the same symptoms, it might be time for a new clutch, yes. Most likely though, this adjustment should get you where you need to be.

brybo86: Readjust your cable using this method, and see if you still are having issues.

Well i tried this method and it didnt do much so im guessing i need new clutch plates. Can you point me in the right direction for this. I have no idea where to start.

[zekkfett]

Aug 13, 2013 14:26:07 GMT -6 newyorkrider said:

Well i tried this method and it didnt do much so im guessing i need new clutch plates. Can you point me in the right direction for this. I have no idea where to start.

eBay Clutch Kit

eBay Clutch Cover Gasket

This should take care of you. When you get inside the clutch cover, PAY ATTENTION to how to clutch plates are installed. There will be a friction plate, then a metal plate, then a friction plate, and so forth. Make sure you put them back in the same order they come out, this is VERY important. You are only replacing the friction plates, as the metal plates should still be good. Take a piece of 240-300 grit sandpaper to the metal plates though and just LIGHTLY rough the surface of them. This will allow the friction plates to "grab" better.

[newyorkrider]

Thanks for the links. just ordered them. Is there any special tools i need or would a ratchet set be fine?

[zekkfett]

Aug 13, 2013 15:54:03 GMT -6 newyorkrider said:

Thanks for the links. just ordered them. Is there any special tools i need or would a ratchet set be fine?

Your standard ratchet set should work. Might need a pick or 2 to get ALL the plates out; but yeah, just standard tools.

[Moody]

I saw these clutches and wondered if they are decent quality. Im needing a friction replacement as well. Anyone have experience with these?

[newyorkrider]

ill let you know how it is once i put it on.
on a side note do i have to remove the oil to do the change or can i just lean the bike over?

[zekkfett]

Aug 15, 2013 22:50:21 GMT -6 newyorkrider said:

ill let you know how it is once i put it on.
on a side note do i have to remove the oil to do the change or can i just lean the bike over?

You're going to have to drain all the oil to change the clutch. Not really any way around that... Besides, you want nice fresh oil to break in that new clutch. On a side note, be EASY on that new clutch once you get it in, for about the first 50 miles; so it get "set" in nicely, and it won't slip. If you have never changed a clutch before, you also need to soak the new friction plates in some NEW engine oil for at least 24 hours, before installing them. And don't forget the lightly rough up the metal plates with some 320 grit sandpaper. Both sides of all the metal plates.

[newyorkrider]

yeah i figured i was going to have to do that. the problem is that my drain bolt stripped on the last oil change. i didnt want to deal with a heli coil so i covered the bolt with epoxy and bought a whole new oil pan (or whatever the bottom tray thing is called). I didnt want to tear into everything until the summer was over but i guess ill do it all up while im at it. Thanks for all the help by the way.  

[zekkfett]

Aug 15, 2013 23:28:30 GMT -6 newyorkrider said:

yeah i figured i was going to have to do that. the problem is that my drain bolt stripped on the last oil change. i didnt want to deal with a heli coil so i covered the bolt with epoxy and bought a whole new oil pan (or whatever the bottom tray thing is called). I didnt want to tear into everything until the summer was over but i guess ill do it all up while im at it. Thanks for all the help by the way.  

Since the oil pan is aluminum, you could always go to the auto parts store, and get a slightly larger diameter steel Metric plug, and create some new threads with a new bolt. I could be wrong, but I believe they might even have some self tapping plugs...

[newyorkrider]

Aug 16, 2013 0:36:23 GMT -6 zekkfett said:

Since the oil pan is aluminum, you could always go to the auto parts store, and get a slightly larger diameter steel Metric plug, and create some new threads with a new bolt. I could be wrong, but I believe they might even have some self tapping plugs...

Wow. that wouldve been alot better but i was so excited about finally fixing other problems and being able to ride that i wasnt thinking, so i just coated the bolt in epoxy.

[zekkfett]

Aug 16, 2013 21:02:21 GMT -6 newyorkrider said:

Wow. that wouldve been alot better but i was so excited about finally fixing other problems and being able to ride that i wasnt thinking, so i just coated the bolt in epoxy.

Its not like you can't fix it when you change out that clutch...

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[zekkfett]

Aug 15, 2013 19:27:49 GMT -6 Moody said:

I saw these clutches and wondered if they are decent quality. Im needing a friction replacement as well. Anyone have experience with these?

I have never had a problem with any of Caltric's products...

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[brybo86]

I tried re-adjusting the cable and it didn't work, so I actually bought those exact clutch plates for $37 from eBay last week, today I put them in. now the clutch begins engaging about halfway through the lever travel. I also replaced the clutch cable while I was at it. seemed like the old one wasn't in too bad of shape.
so the new clutch plates seemed to have been my issue.
I measured the old and new plates with my micrometer
the old plates, measured 0.121 inches
the new plates measured 0.125 inches
service manual listed the friction plate minimum as 0.108 so the old ones were still way above that...?
one a side note the old plates were directional, the new plates from eBay were unidirectional, the material was straight not at an angle...
oil out was rotella 5w40
oil in was rotella 15w40
thanks for the tips and help guys

[Blaine]

Glad to here you got it sorted out.