Engine rolls but doesn't start, has clicking noise

[tazuma]

I've recently bought a 1986 en450, I rode it for a week until I realized there was a carb leak on the right side, once I got it all fixed up a new problem arose. 

When I go to start the bike the engine rolls & I hear light combustion but it doesn't start up. While the trans and everything spins, there is an occasional clicking sound. I think it may be the starter motor not engaging or the clicking sound may be the brushing arching within the starter itself. The sound is kind of hard to pinpoint, i'm really hoping it's not the chain that's clicking, although that would have more of a rattling sound I suppose.

Any advice and troubleshooting techniques would be appreciated. Especially with the replacement or repair of any said problem that is suggested.


 

[Blaine]

May 5, 2015 19:42:41 GMT -6 tazuma said:

I've recently bought a 1986 en450, I rode it for a week until I realized there was a carb leak on the right side, once I got it all fixed up a new problem arose. 

When I go to start the bike the engine rolls & I hear light combustion but it doesn't start up. While the trans and everything spins, there is an occasional clicking sound. I think it may be the starter motor not engaging or the clicking sound may be the brushing arching within the starter itself. The sound is kind of hard to pinpoint, i'm really hoping it's not the chain that's clicking, although that would have more of a rattling sound I suppose.

Any advice and troubleshooting techniques would be appreciated. Especially with the replacement or repair of any said problem that is suggested.


 

First make sure that it is not the starter clutch.Take out the small timing cover & see if the motor is actually turning over when you hit the button.

[tazuma]

May 5, 2015 21:14:03 GMT -6 Blaine said:

May 5, 2015 19:42:41 GMT -6 tazuma said:

I've recently bought a 1986 en450, I rode it for a week until I realized there was a carb leak on the right side, once I got it all fixed up a new problem arose. 

When I go to start the bike the engine rolls & I hear light combustion but it doesn't start up. While the trans and everything spins, there is an occasional clicking sound. I think it may be the starter motor not engaging or the clicking sound may be the brushing arching within the starter itself. The sound is kind of hard to pinpoint, i'm really hoping it's not the chain that's clicking, although that would have more of a rattling sound I suppose.

Any advice and troubleshooting techniques would be appreciated. Especially with the replacement or repair of any said problem that is suggested.


 

First make sure that it is not the starter clutch.Take out the small timing cover & see if the motor is actually turning over when you hit the button.

Sorry it's been a while, I'm not really fluent on bikes unfortunately, but where exactly is the timing cover?

[Blaine]

Nope....That's the water pump.........Timing cover is on the opposite side. You best get a manual....I sent you a P.M.

[knoizy]

A worn out battery will produce almost identical symptoms. Batteries on their way out they can show good voltages on a meter but won't deliver the necessary amps to start the bike. Just replaced mine which was able to produce starter clicks and random belches from the engine but unable to start the bike. Do all the stuff Blaine says anyway and try starting with more power, a car battery with leads if possible.

[tazuma]

Feb 29, 2016 6:28:40 GMT -6 Blaine said:

Nope....That's the water pump.........Timing cover is on the opposite side. You best get a manual....I sent you a P.M.

Thank you tons for the manual; I've taken off the plastic caps on the timing cover, and the oil is pretty clean despite sitting. When I go hit the button, it still turns in a fluid manner. May it be that the carbs are poorly adjusted?

[tazuma]

Feb 29, 2016 11:46:04 GMT -6 knoizy said:

A worn out battery will produce almost identical symptoms. Batteries on their way out they can show good voltages on a meter but won't deliver the necessary amps to start the bike. Just replaced mine which was able to produce starter clicks and random belches from the engine but unable to start the bike. Do all the stuff Blaine says anyway and try starting with more power, a car battery with leads if possible.

I have tried that, and alas no start. But it churns nicely now with a fresh battery, no more clicks. Just got to get it to start. :I

[tazuma]

New problem, I took out to adjust the pins on the carb; turns out they were over turned, whoops! And when I put it back on, I went to start the bike; and now there is gas leaking into the air intake out of the back end of the carbs. 

..... double whoops.

..... help!

[tazuma]

Okay, I think I should change the name of this thread to (dang there's a lot of problems here to be solved!).

I took off the intake, and it turns out the air filters have mold inside of them. I guess since there was a lack of an inflow, the gas back-flowed in return. Took out the air filters and turned the motor a bit, got a couple of hiccups but no blackflow this time. I remember getting a new spark plug on the right side maybe that has to be gauged properly? Most likely has to be gauged properly! 

The engine rolls, and now smoothly since I got a new battery; but I can't quite put my finger on it. Should it still be able to start without the air filters, though making it oxygen rich?

[mik3]

No. It won't get proper vacuum. If you disassembled your carbs, maybe the floats are way out of wack. Also clean everything, new gaskets. Make sure there is no air leak from the carb boots, to the engine. They will click when you have them properly seated.

As far as the spark. If you got the plugs at a bike shop and for your bike, you don't need to gap them. Pull your plug, slap into the wire and fire the bike check for spark. Do that on both sides. Depending what petcock you're running, a vacuum issue would not allow the gas to flow properly. Try it in pri, if you have the original petcock, if you see gas coming out of the filters aain, your floats are off. Took me a few tries and a bit of time. I have the full service manual in pdf, just send me your email and i can send it to you. Was a bloody life saver, an youtube of course

Edit: Valve Udjustment. 100% could be all your issues. I was doing them every 5k miles. So every couple weeks oh my.

[tazuma]

Mar 1, 2016 16:55:56 GMT -6 mik3 said:

No. It won't get proper vacuum. If you disassembled your carbs, maybe the floats are way out of wack. Also clean everything, new gaskets. Make sure there is no air leak from the carb boots, to the engine. They will click when you have them properly seated.

As far as the spark. If you got the plugs at a bike shop and for your bike, you don't need to gap them. Pull your plug, slap into the wire and fire the bike check for spark. Do that on both sides. Depending what petcock you're running, a vacuum issue would not allow the gas to flow properly. Try it in pri, if you have the original petcock, if you see gas coming out of the filters aain, your floats are off. Took me a few tries and a bit of time. I have the full service manual in pdf, just send me your email and i can send it to you. Was a bloody life saver, an youtube of course

Edit: Valve Udjustment. 100% could be all your issues. I was doing them every 5k miles. So every couple weeks oh my.

Guess I got myself a lot more reading to do; my email is [e-mail]

[knoizy]

With all those symptoms I think you have to commit to new air filters, carb removal and full service (spray carb cleaner will not be enough!), new plugs and not forgetting the valve adjustment. That could all be done in a day but probably not on your first attempt, go slowly and gently and ask if you need more help

[eaglerider]

first, you need to check & adjust valves. These engines require periodic valve adjustments ( about every 5 to 6 thousand miles). The valves tighten up (close up) so no compression, nor fuel into the cylinders......result...will not start.

[tazuma]

looks like i'ma have to get myself a feeler gauge set and impact hand screwdriver for this deal :I

I've broken down the carbs, and all is well; no build up from sitting. Had em cleaned before the winter and set with some dry fuel.

[tazuma]

Mar 3, 2016 9:02:22 GMT -6 eaglerider said:

first, you need to check & adjust valves. These engines require periodic valve adjustments ( about every 5 to 6 thousand miles). The valves tighten up (close up) so no compression, nor fuel into the cylinders......result...will not start.

It all makes sense now D:
When adjusting the valves, do I have to replace the head gasket every time I crack it open?

[knoizy]

Not if the gasket is OK but the manual suggests you apply RTV to the semicircle areas when re-fitting.

[Blaine]

Mar 4, 2016 13:04:39 GMT -6 knoizy said:

Not if the gasket is OK but the manual suggests you apply RTV to the semicircle areas when re-fitting.

Nope....Not if it's in good shape.It's designed to be reused.But put new o-rings on the coolant tubes. (14mm)

[tazuma]

Def put the RTV and O ring on my list of things. Finally got the new air filters in the mail, huzzah!

Also the lines going to the head of the motor  to the thermostat are cracked to high heck at the bases. I'm very surprised there are no leaks! Put those on my list as well, have a feeling the removal isn't going to go smoothly on either end of the thermostat's hose's.

Getting amped to do this, something very different for me can be scary yet exciting.  I'm just praying that this doesn't fall out of my financial range.  

[eaglerider]

Read carefully thru instructions, and cautions posted in the forum, take your time...do not get in a rush...double check everything before putting everything back together....you should be fine.

[tazuma]

Before I go on with this, what is the inner and outer diameter of the coolant tubes? I would rather get the tubes new and shape them myself than get already shaped ones that are used with some millage on them.

[mik3]

I purchased all new ones from Kawi.

[eaglerider]

Most new parts for the 454 are no longer produced...the 454 was built from 1985 thru 1990. In 1990, the Vulcan 500 was introduced....many parts for the Vulcan 500 and Ninja 500 engines can be used on the 454 engine, but not all.

[jaj040]

Mar 9, 2016 14:33:26 GMT -6 tazuma said:

Before I go on with this, what is the inner and outer diameter of the coolant tubes? I would rather get the tubes new and shape them myself than get already shaped ones that are used with some millage on them.

The coolant tubes have an indent for the O-ring to seat into.  It would not be easy to make your own and get a good, reliable seal to the cylinder block.

[mik3]

Mar 10, 2016 6:09:21 GMT -6 eaglerider said:

Most new parts for the 454 are no longer produced...the 454 was built from 1985 thru 1990. In 1990, the Vulcan 500 was introduced....many parts for the Vulcan 500 and Ninja 500 engines can be used on the 454 engine, but not all.

Kawasaki still has most of the parts in stock, can even still order the frame call eddie at del amo power sports in inglewood, cali. He always got the parts within a coupke days no matter what I needed. Only things that took a bit were the radiator hoses, took almost a month for those, they had to come from japan.

[tazuma]

Replaced tubes and did the valve adjustment finally (stopped raining and snowing for once), put in new gas and all that jazz. And now the back flow of gas into the air filters is fixed, thank goodness also replaced the air filters. And now I'm back to square one! Doesn't start up, and now the front wheel is stick. Gonna have to disassemble the front brake to get it loose down the line I guess. Also turns out that the tach and speedo cables are stripped, no wonder the previous owner was selling it for $300! Also recharging the battery for now. Any other suggestions, if anything i'ma try to upload a video down the line. 

I'ma literally try to spell out the sound... again... I think, so don't judge me!!!!

Churns normally then a click sound and a vroooooooOOOOom like sound as if it clicked out of place and just spins.

I'ma try to have a video posted tomorrow if anything. I'm super stumped!

[tazuma]

I prolly poorly adjusted the valves, gonna give it another go I guess, before then Ima retest the spark. Noticed a little dust on the right side.

[tazuma]

You's guysis are prolly sick of me by now, but now i'm getting shocked by the sparkplug wires, well one of em at least; the one on the left side. After trying to do a spark test, the right side has nothing, but the left shocked me when I turned the key to the on position. And I went to try to spark the head or the body, and got nothing on that side either. I guess since I got a shock on one side, the problem might be in that area?

Well another note, I swapped the coils and they both seem to shock my hand when on the left side of the bike, but no arcs  on either. And on the right side, I didn't get a shock to the hand at all or any arc. I've tried swapping wires, spark plugs, etc and still the same result. Any ideas on what can cause this?