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Post by white96850turbo on May 27, 2012 13:21:08 GMT -6
So i was given a 1987 454ltd, my dad bought new, with 7,800 miles on it that has not been started for the past 7 years.... I changed all fluids and added some fresh gas to see if it will start. When I put the tank to PRI, I get fuel running out of a clear white line that runs between the backbone and battery (fuel doesn't leak if tank is put on RES or ON). One end connects to a 3 way that's between both carbs, but I can't find where the other end attaches. What does this line connect to? One end attaches to part # 92005A in this diagram. www.powersportsplus.com/parts/search/Kawasaki/Motorcycle/1988/EN450-A4+454+LTD/CARBURETOR/parts.html |
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Post by eaglerider on May 27, 2012 15:28:07 GMT -6
That is the fuel overflow/vent......the float needles are not holding, and the carbs are flooding, causing fuel to run out this tube. The carbs will need to be removed and cleaned. Old gas, over a period of time, dries, and forms "varnish" that clogs up just about everything in the carbs. The bike has set for 7 years, so in order to "resurect" it, the gas tank needs to be checked for rust and crud also. I also suggest that the valve adjustment be checked, and re-adjusted. You have done part of what is needed, by replacing all fluids with fresh.
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Post by white96850turbo on May 27, 2012 22:05:38 GMT -6
eaglerider, thanks for the help!
about 3 hours ago, I cracked the bleeder screws on both carbs and ran some fresh gas through them (I get a steady stream/fast drip out of them), and now NO gas comes out of the overflow / vent tube. I tryed push starting it a few time (my starter or button is broken) and it turns over and starts to fire, but I can't keep it running.
I looked in the fuel tank, and saw no rust, but no fuel would flow out unless the tank was set to PRI. Shouldn't fuel fow out when set to RES or ON?
Do you think its possible to get it started without cleaning the carbs? If started, would running seafoam through the tank clean the carbs?
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Post by lordnor on May 28, 2012 0:23:06 GMT -6
Pri (shirt for prime) is the only free flowing position. RES is for reserve that allows a lower point on the petcock to deliver gas and the regular setting is a bit higher up. These two modes allow gas to flow in the presence of suction from the CV carbs under vacuum. So no, it should only flow gas when set to prime. Clean out the carbs and it should fire right.
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kpage
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Post by kpage on Jun 3, 2012 11:30:51 GMT -6
I recently obtained a 1989 454 LTD with about 16,500 mi on it. It ran when I got it but has been having issues lately. I noticed some gas dripping out the breather tube a few days ago. I've been reading the manuals I could find online and have lots of questions. My fuel tap has only 2 labeled positions, OFF and ON. I have read in the manuals about the PRI position, but have no clue where that is. Just found what it means by reading this in the forum.
Took the tank off to clean it, and tried to run some fuel through, but can't get any flow from any position. Why does the manual say to remove the tank with the fuel tap in the ON position? This seems crazy. I thought fuel would run everywhere. Now I'm going crazy! Any help would be appreciated.
I also drained the float bowls thinking that might dislodge any debris that might be holding the float needle open. Still got some gas out the breather pipe after running a while and shutting down.
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Post by eaglerider on Jun 3, 2012 12:11:33 GMT -6
There should be a third position...RES for reserve, if someone has not changed the petcock to some other non-stock type. The stock petcock is vacum operated....fuel will not flow until the bike is running, and vacum opens a diaphram in the petcock to allow fuel to low to the carbs. Sounds like the carbs need to be cleaned, and float level checked & adjusted , if needed. Just draining the bowls will not fix the flooding problem, as old fuel forms a "varnish", clogging orfices, and preventing the float needles to seal.
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Post by remat457 on Jun 3, 2012 14:24:56 GMT -6
This is a good thread, as I am in pretty much the same boat as the OP. If you guys figure out anything dramatic please post  If I don't get time this week to pull the carbs, I am going to take it in to a local mechanic and have it done (or I will miss the short WA summer for riding). |
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kpage
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Post by kpage on Jun 3, 2012 14:43:19 GMT -6
Thanks, Eaglerider. I did look at the petcock and there is a RES position stamped on it. These old eyes need more light to see anything. Still no PRI setting though.
There are Two ports on the petcock. One is smaller than the other and goes from the petcock to the top right of the left carb. From the same spot on the right carb a hose goes up underneath the frame to some sort of emission/vacuum device?
It looks as if the larger port on the petcock is the actual fuel line and it goes down to tee into a line that runs between the two carbs. Up above that line running between the two carbs is another line running between the carbs, and it has a clear tube that tees into it and that line is pushed in between the carbs on the air cleaner side towards the rear. I just discovered that and wondered if this routing is correct.
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Post by Blaine on Jun 3, 2012 15:02:51 GMT -6
Yep.That is correct.This hose must remain open & unkinked for proper operation.  |
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kpage
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Post by kpage on Jun 3, 2012 17:00:15 GMT -6
Thanks Blaine! I thought when my wife bought this bike it would not be a "project". It seemed to run fine. In the space of a couple of weeks it's now another "project". As if I need another project!  I guess I have to bite the bullet and clean/rebuild the carbs. What's the best, most complete, aftermarket carb rebuild kit? |
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Post by Blaine on Jun 3, 2012 18:05:12 GMT -6
Most of the factory carb kits that fit the Vulcan & ninja 500 are the same They run between $15.00 & $20.00 a carb.They consist of a new float needle,bowl o-ring,& mixture screws. (pilot jets).  |
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kpage
New Member
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Post by kpage on Jun 3, 2012 19:30:35 GMT -6
Good info, Blaine. Thanks. Does anyone know if the carbs from a 1985 are the same as the 1989?
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Post by Blaine on Jun 3, 2012 20:09:32 GMT -6
Good info, Blaine. Thanks. Does anyone know if the carbs from a 1985 are the same as the 1989? Yep,same carbs.  |
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chey
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Post by chey on Oct 10, 2015 8:30:49 GMT -6
There are Two ports on the petcock. One is smaller than the other and goes from the petcock to the top right of the left carb. From the same spot on the right carb a hose goes up underneath the frame to some sort of emission/vacuum device? Sorry to necro an old thread but i've been searching around to find out what to do with this tubing we have found that definitely look like it's lacking a destination. the closest i can find which sounds like it is what the gent i quoted mentioned vacuum goes from petcock to carb 1, but on our old girl carb 2's vacuum port is capped off, and we have this hose that goes from something on top of the head cover (part of the cooling system we believe) to a T, continues down below the battery to what we believe is the emission control system shizzle, but its the offshoot from the T that goes nowhere now what this gent mentions, leads me to think it should be attached to carb 2's vacuum.... but not really sure tbh as i have never seen a bike with these emission control systems on them before. she does not have an original air box on her, someone has put pods on some years back by the state of them, so i don't even know if that makes anything redundant with the emission control system or not. Also while on the subject of fuel line routing, there is a rather intricate looping system around the carburettor itself, with one part (on a corner) missing, is this also part of that system? and is the part missing a problem, or could someone have removed that for a reason Any advice you can give i would really appreciate Many thanks |
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Post by knoizy on Oct 10, 2015 15:12:48 GMT -6
If I have understood you correctly then I would proceed as follows... Petcock - if it is vacuum operated you will have to run a line from one carb port or use a T from both if that's more convenient. If not vacuum operated then hooray you can forget about vacuum hoses for good. Emissions - get rid of the lot and blank wherever they came from. That's two reed valves on the cylinder head and one airbox but in your case its pods so I presume the PO installed a crankcase breather filter. In stock form the crankcase breather tube feeds back into the airbox. That just leaves you with the reed valve ports to blank off - here's the lamp-one PAIR kit getting fitted but I just used copper end caps from a plumbing supply with RTV, or you can simply fit a hose between the two ports. ex500 Pair removal Fuel - the fuel line runs straight from the petcock into the carbs, it fits on the upright T plug in the middle of the carb assembly with absolutely nothing complicated about it. While on this job its a good time to install a filter on the fuel line. My setup - the petcock is not vacuum operated and I've removed the emissions nonsense so now both carb vacuum ports have silicone caps and removing emissions left two reed valves to be capped on the cylinder head and one hole to be plugged in the airbox. End result no vacuum required anywhere and all emissions connections blanked, capped or plugged. |
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Post by Blaine on Oct 10, 2015 18:13:05 GMT -6
Yep...You got it.....Just to be clear......Fuel hose goeson bottom "T"......Upper "T" is clear vent tube & must remain open. |
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chey
New Member
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Post by chey on Oct 11, 2015 7:16:06 GMT -6
ok so we are all good to remove the rest of this emissions shizzle thats good, i am guessing PO just didnt bother and left it all hanging around.
Can you guys shed some light on this intricate system of hoses that goes around the carbs? its smaller tubing that what i would use for fuel line, and none of it is marked as fuel safe, but does appear to connect at either end of the bar the fuel in pipe goes to
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Post by knoizy on Oct 11, 2015 13:36:47 GMT -6
As Blaine said...
...the carb has an upper T-bar onto which goes the vent hose pointing down towards the floor while the lower T receives the fuel line which comes straight from the petcock. So when looking at the installed carbs (without any vacuum lines) all you can really see is the fuel line which makes me wonder what you are describing as an intricate system! Upper T is a vent and lower T is fuel.
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Post by xsable on Apr 5, 2016 20:14:00 GMT -6
As Blaine said... ...the carb has an upper T-bar onto which goes the vent hose pointing down towards the floor while the lower T receives the fuel line which comes straight from the petcock. So when looking at the installed carbs (without any vacuum lines) all you can really see is the fuel line which makes me wonder what you are describing as an intricate system! Upper T is a vent and lower T is fuel. So you guys are saying that the reason I haven't been able to get any gas to come out of my tank for the last week is i mixed those two up?? Thanks guys, even your obvious reminder tips are helpful to some of us rookies. |
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If I don't get time this week to pull the carbs, I am going to take it in to a local mechanic and have it done (or I will miss the short WA summer for riding).
I guess I have to bite the bullet and clean/rebuild the carbs. What's the best, most complete, aftermarket carb rebuild kit?
