put them back, but now it won't start..

[remat457]

Ok,
My saga continues...I took apart the carbs and cleaned them (disassembled and soaked) last weekend. I put them back in today -- and might I say what a PITA getting it back in was! -- but now it turns over but does not start. Previously, it started but wouldn't hold idle without throttle.

So, I am thinking....I just got new air filters in the mail today, so they will go in tomorrow and I can adjust the pilot screw so that it is not out as far (3 turns out is what they were originally) and start there. Am I missing anything else? Do I need to prime the carbs (and how would I do that )?

Much thanks for the help guys! I feel it is getting close(r) to running!

[jp]

Next time you have to put them back in, shove the rubber boots into the air box first, some people heat them first with hot air to make them softer. Saves mucho work! And the bike will barely run if at all without the air filters.
Check for gas by loosening phillips screw at bottom of carbs under float bowls. Gas should run out of bottom of carb.
Early bikes have Prime position on the petcock, rotate valve towards the rear. Reserve is to the front.
Check vacuum connections , one to pollution stuff, one to petcock.
Hope this helps a little. Be patient and don't give up!

[Blaine]

2.5 to 3 turns out is a good starting point for the pilot jets.You do have the fuel line on the bottom "T"? It's a easy mistake to make.If your petcock has a "pri" on it no problem.If not the carbs should get fuel after a few cranks.Make sure you have vacuum to the petcock.You can also pull the fuel line to be sure fuel is flowing.

[Jet⚡Black]

I put a little shop grease (petroleum jelly) on the inside my intake boots; so installation and removal wouldn't be such a chore.

[remat457]

Thanks for all the input guys! The petcock appears to have been replaced, it looks brand new and has on, off, and reserve. I will double check all my connections and for fuel. I have the old air filters on it now and they are pretty bad, so I will pop on the new ones.

Thanks for the boot hints. Hoping that I don't have pull the carbs off though!

[remat457]

New air filters in and I checked one of the bowls and it has fuel in it.

Setup-Petcock large nipple is going to the bottom center of the carbs, left carb vacuum is going to the small nipple on the petcock, and the right carb vacuum looks like it is going to an upper air valve on the frame.

I wouldn't think plugs or fuses, since it worked before...

Still turns over but doesn't start. What should I check next?

Thanks!

p.s. after doing some reading here, it looks like valve adjustment might be in order. Is that correct, even though the bike only has 7K on it?

[remat457]

Adding to my work in progress...

Fuses ok, changed spark plugs, tried a spray of starter fluid and it does run. A good sign, at least!

[Blaine]

Jun 24, 2012 16:11:49 GMT -6 remat457 said:

p.s. after doing some reading here, it looks like valve adjustment might be in order. Is that correct, even though the bike only has 7K on it?

Yes.The valves need to be adjusted/checked every 5 to 7 thousand miles.

[remat457]

[quote author=blaine board=has thread=3727 post=28039
Yes.The valves need to be adjusted/checked every 5 to 7 thousand miles. [/quote]

I was afraid of that. Something new to learn how to do! I rechecked all my connections and recharged the battery and it wants to start but won't. I will tackle valve adjustment this weekend (hopefully).

[Jet⚡Black]

Don't let it be intimidating; the worst part is every thing you have to take out of the way to do it. The actual adjustment itself is pretty straight forward, just read up on the many many posts here about it; to get familiar with it, make some notes, gather the tools you'll need ahead of time, and get that thing humming like a sewing machine.

There's only 3 tricky parts that can sneak their way in and mess up the adjustment: 1. make sure you decide ahead of time if you are going to use Imperial units(inches) or MM for the feeler gauge 2. Hold or secure the tachometer drive pin so it doesn't drop down in there when you lift the cover. 3. Put some RTV on the corners before you stitch the cover back on so it doesn't lose oil out of the cover after.

[remat457]

That is good advice! I decided to tackle it today. Wow, it is also a PITA to get to the cover to take it off! Actual adjustment was pretty easy - and they were tight to VERY tight.

So, I did what everybody said to watch out for -- I dropped one of those alignment guides. I am pretty sure it dropped to the floor, but I will be darned if I can find it. I wish the Haynes had better pictures so I would have known what/where to look.


Do I need to replace it? There appears to be very low risk it fell into the bottom end, especially since I heard something drop onto the garage floor, but is it enough risk that I should have someone (not me!) take it apart?

Appreciate the help!

[Jet⚡Black]

Sorry, that was my fault; I started to mention the knock pins, but didn't Make sure you find that thing on the ground before starting your bike back up. The last thing you want is that lil bugger flying around inside the head playing tag with everything, grab a strong flashlight and slowly scan every single spot inside the head, if you can't see into some spots; grab a small compact mirror.

If you can't find it on the floor; here's the mechanics percentage: Any time you drop something 99.9% of the time it fell exactly where you didn't want it too. If it hit the floor 99.9% of the time you'll never ever see it again. the 00.01% it didn't go into the motor...it hit the floor. The 00.01% when you do find it on the ground?...00.05% is the sun shining on a dogs hiney, and the other 00.05% is months, or years later when you drop something else and start looking for that...that's when you'll declare: "Wow, here's that knock pin!"

[Blaine]

The first time I adjusted my valves I dropped one of the pins into the engine and was lucky to retrieve it with a flexible magnet.I used LocTite to install them back in the head so I wouldn't need to worry about them again.The pins are not needed.They are there for the PAR emission system.They can be blocked with RTV silicone.

[remat457]

Nobody's fault but my own.

Well, I spent the day looking for the part and searching for it with a telescoping magnet. No luck
I drained the oil, but the flow was much slower than I hoped, so that didn't work. I semi put it back together (need the garage space).

So close, yet so far.

Any thoughts? My guess is to bring it in. It will be a little bit since they wanted $300 just to do the carbs, which is what prompted me to do the carbs and alignment myself.

[Jet⚡Black]

The only place it can go if it is in there, is the chain galley. You'll see it at the bottom of the chain, where it meets the sprocket on the crankshaft.

Take the crank nut cover off the side of the engine and turn the crank with a socket (like you did to line up TDC when you did your valves).

You'll hear it moving if it's in there while you're turning the crank. If you listen closely and hear nothing jingle jangling it probably hit the floor.

Don't try to crank it if you know it's in there, it will snap your cam chain before it starts.

300 is very steep for carbs, what are they gonna do buy you new ones and charge you 50 bucks to put them on? I suggest finding someone else if that's a route you're seriously considering. Check out the recent no starting post in the electrical section started by Mrchips, and you'll get it started and humming right a long don't give up. ;D

[remat457]

Thanks for the words of encouragement! I am going to give it another shot this weekend and look for it again. This time I will take the cover off. The crank does rotate freely, although at this point I don't know if that is good or bad because if it didn't at least I would know where it is

[eaglerider]

This has happened to other members, so don't feel like a lone ranger.....all the other times, the item has fallen all the way into the crankcase, and caused no problem, or was fished out using a small magnet retrevial tool, or in one case, the pan was removed, and the part was retrieved. This, of course, might not always happen. If u have turned the crank thru several times, and it has not locked up, it is doubtful that it is/was hung up in the cam chain, or other place that would damage the engine.

[remat457]

As you can tell, I don't have a lot of experience in the vehicle world.

Update:
Took it apart again this weekend and double-checked everywhere I could see. Crank rotates without any problems, I also replaced the air hoses.

Question:
How does the thermostat attach to the feeder? I apparently didn't do it correctly and it didn't seal. Tightening resulted in snapping the top mount bracket.... grr.... I found one on ebay and it should be here in a couple of days.

I appreciate all the help and you guys putting up with all my questions. Getting closer!

[remat457]

Well, got the thermostat issue resolved, thanks to an ebay part. I went to crank it up it she turns over like she wants to start but won't catch. I used starter fluid and it runs briefly. I do have to say it sounds much better and no smoke. Also, the alignment guide wasn't in there. But I am bummed. What should I try next?

[Blaine]

If it runs on starter fluid than you have a fuel flow issue somewere.Pull your fuel line & check for flow,& make sure the bowls are full & work from there.

[remat457]

Thanks for hanging in there with me
I will check the float levels. I thought I saw that they can be adjusted without removing the carbs. I will Google, I hope that is the case.

[Jet⚡Black]

You can find the float level without taking them off. Adjusting them without taking them off can be a pain in the A. you have to be a very tactile person...as in see with your fingers.

If you have pods it's not a big deal to just pull them. But before you do...

Is the bike in neutral? put it in neutral. Is the side stand down? Put it down. Is the clutch pulled in? Pull it in. Are you using any choke? No, try it, yes, try half or none. Do you hear multiple clicks? yes, then jump it and charge your battery. One click? Yes then your starter relay is stuck, tap it with a screw driver. Do you have the key on a ring with other stuff? That wears out your ignition switch keep it light as possible.

If you have prime on your petcock; pull the fuel line and turn it on. Make sure you have a full tank of gas because prime and reserve are connected. Does it flow out? How does it flow in on or reserve? To check the petcock vacuum: Put a long clear section of hose on the vacuum line and suck on it, do you see fuel coming into the tube? If not your petcock is malfunctioning: dirty or bad diaphragm. If so go the the next paragraph.

Crank the bike over for 5 seconds; stop and pull the plugs are they wet and sparking? If so you have either bad gas or your battery has drained too low. Gas starts to go bad and separate in as little as 14 days, it isn't what it used to be. But before you consider it being gas, try jump starting it, your battery may be too low and can't deliver the cranking amps it needs; usually determined by clicking noise when you hit the starter.

If you have good gas and plenty of cranking power and wet sparking plugs; then it's gonna be a vacuum or air filter problem. If you have emissions stuff junk it, it's more trouble than benefit.

3 things needed to run: fuel, spark, air

[remat457]

Update! She runs!! WOOHOO!

A coworker came over who works on his own bikes. We pulled the carbs (several times actually) and could only find that the floats were a tiny bit off. A tiny bit off is apparently enough to cause it not to run--and around the block several times my LTD went. Being able to start it after turning it off is amazing! ;D

Still battling a coolant leak at the thermostat and a few little things like loose shifter, front brake switch, tweak mixture, replace front tire, etc. but it sounds and runs great!

My coworker who rides a Triumph TBird was amazed at how high the little LTD revs and fast through the gears it goes for a little bike (at least compared to his).

Thanks for all the help everyone--I definitely would not have gotten anywhere near this far without this forum!

[eaglerider]

;D Great!!!! Congrats!! Your friend will again be amazed, when you get the bike running as it should, when u show him your taillights. This "little bike" will leave many larger bikes in its dust.

[boss]

I love reading these success stories. Nothing more satisfying than fixing your own bike....and hearing her run. Congrats!!