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Post by remat457 on Jul 23, 2012 12:24:16 GMT -6
Hello again, I started a new thread because this is specific to the choke. (I am down to my last few problems!)  I am having problems with cold starting. It just turns over. If I blow into the overflow, effectively priming the carbs, it starts up but only with the choke off (it bogs down). Once it is warm, no problem! I have adjusted the pilot/mixture screws to various positions and it doesn't seem to help. The choke lever and connection is working, it clearly opens and closes the plungers. When I cleaned the carbs, I (regretting now) did not take the chokes off, but just relied on the carb body soak. Ideas? thanks! |
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Post by wanchesenative on Jul 23, 2012 15:35:13 GMT -6
It has probably been addressed in your other thread, but have you done a valve adjustment. If the valves are too tight, this can lead to hard starting problems.
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Post by remat457 on Jul 23, 2012 15:43:14 GMT -6
I did, which was a tale in itself! |
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Post by Jet⚡Black on Jul 23, 2012 17:15:17 GMT -6
The purpose of starter fluid, which is ether, is to provide a more volatile substance that ignites easier than gasoline. If a bike starts on it, then runs fine, the problem is either bad gas or a weak spark. With bad gas, the problem would repeat when trying to restart after warm...so does it start back up after warmed up? Or do you have to use starting fluid again then too? If so then you have weak spark, buy the highest octane when you do. Gas starts separating and going bad in as little as 14 days.
A weak spark will fire a warm engine, but not fire bad gas.
Weak spark is caused by coils, ic igniter, wires/boots, plugs, or sometimes by a bad or low battery.
Thinking it's the carburetors is a normal assumption. But if carburetors are bad, they are always bad; as in it wouldn't start and stay running using the starter fluid if it were the carburetors. The only time symptoms like these are caused by a fueling delivery issue is from a sticking petcock vacuum not the carburetor.
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Post by remat457 on Jul 25, 2012 12:34:24 GMT -6
Hi, thanks for the reply and I agree with everything you said A couple of quick questions... 1. I assume that there a fuel circuit that is inside the choke cavity that feeds from the bowl? I don't remember seeing it when I had the carbs apart...I am wondering if I can spray something in it to make sure it is clear. 2. It does start fine warm so it is not gas. The starter does make a clicking sound every once in a while. Maybe a chipped tooth? Would that cause hard starting? 3. Wouldn't bad coils make themselves known at higher RPM operation too? Seems to run fine (after I get it started that is) Thanks!! |
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Post by Jet⚡Black on Jul 25, 2012 13:37:34 GMT -6
Ah the clicking noise that's not your starter, that's the starter relay the clicking indicates a discharged or weak battery. Your weak spark that wont fire it cold is coming from the battery. Jump start it and watch it fire like it should or take the battery to get load tested if you don't have cables. Sometimes the starter relay gets stuck when the battery is too weak in cranking amps and you have to tap on the relay to free up the stuck arm. |
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Post by remat457 on Jul 25, 2012 22:26:36 GMT -6
Ah, that is a good tidbit of info (clicking). I charged up the battery and retried and she started without choke. When running activating the choke causes it to bog (it is about 80degrees here). So, that must be working. I noticed that throttling at starting causes it to bog too. I wait a few minutes and it throttles normally. Should I add unscrew the pilot screw a little more (it is at 2.5 now)? I noticed that the battery doesn't seem to be charging as well as it used to. Hard to believe but the drain/charge that I put it through may have killed it--afterall it was a $40 Walmart battery Could it be that simple? Thanks!! |
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Post by remat457 on Jul 25, 2012 22:28:50 GMT -6
Thanks guys!! It is pretty exciting to be on the cusp of being able to ride it for more than around the block. Also to be honest, I am hopefully at the prospect that I won't have to pull the carbs and put them back in again! I was thinking of getting the wife a Ninja 250, but now I am leaning towards the fuel injected Honda CBR250. I have become too familiar with the CV34  |
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Post by Blaine on Jul 26, 2012 5:52:30 GMT -6
I noticed that throttling at starting causes it to bog too. I wait a few minutes and it throttles normally. Should I add unscrew the pilot screw a little more (it is at 2.5 now)? Thanks!! With the bike warmed up adjust the pilot screw to were the bike idles smoothest.2.5 turns out is only a starting point.  |
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Post by remat457 on Jul 29, 2012 19:40:51 GMT -6
I just noticed that you said premium gas. I have been running regular unl. Important enough difference to drain the tank and refill with premiun? oops.. thanks!
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Post by eaglerider on Jul 29, 2012 19:51:24 GMT -6
No..this engine runs fine on regular 87 octane unleaded fuel. Do not use the Ethonol 85/flex fuel in this engine....you will burn the engine up. My 454 ran just fine just fine on regular gas, and now, on the 500 with competition cams, has run fine for the last 6 or 7 years on the same fuel.
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Post by Jet⚡Black on Jul 30, 2012 23:51:23 GMT -6
I said premium because it ignites easier than the lower grade to aid your starting issues. It also doesn't separate and go bad quite as fast; 30 days or so premium verses 14 low grade and helps prevent engine knock. Thankfully, the age of this bike allows it to run low grade, if you start hearing a knock it might be a good idea to boost the octane.
A friend has a Yamaha V-twin that says use premium only, second tank of low grade he had to pull the tank and flush the fuel system...it was like he filled it with water it wouldn't even spark. Flush and premium it fired right up, fortunately he was mindful of what change he made right before it conked out.
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Post by remat457 on Jul 31, 2012 21:20:37 GMT -6
the bike now starts fine with a charged battery but has trouble idling cold for a couple minutes. I can't activate the choke or throttle or it surges a little for a second and then drops the rpm's down until it dies.
A curious symptom is that it is drawing air from the overflow tube. if I plug it with my finger it has the same symptoms as activating the choke. After a couple minutes and it wams up I don't feel the vacuum on the overflow and covering it up has no effect on it any longer.
any thoughts on what that might mean?
again thank you for all your help!
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Post by Jet⚡Black on Jul 31, 2012 23:45:38 GMT -6
Choke is really meant for cold weather starting, not cold engine starting. So it's doing it's job by stalling it out. If both pins actuate it's working fine.
I don't know if you changed the 2.5 turns out yet, but try them on 2.75 turns out and see what happens. Right after you start it up, adjust them pull in the clutch drop it gear and whack the throttle if it dies during any of that back them out a quarter turn til it does what it should. Then after warm set your knob idle. Hopefully, that's all it is and you don't need to get back in there. If backing them out a 1/4 turn slowly doesn't find the right mixture; I hate to say it but one of your pilot jet holders is probably clogged; the ones with all the little holes. Or you have a vacuum leak.
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Post by remat457 on Aug 1, 2012 18:41:57 GMT -6
Thanks for the feedback and help. They are both backed out 3 turns currently. I will double check all of the lines. I feared I may have missed something during the cleaning.  Would it be worth it to run something like SeaFoam through it? |
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Post by Blaine on Aug 1, 2012 19:16:51 GMT -6
Thanks for the feedback and help. They are both backed out 3 turns currently. I will double check all of the lines. I feared I may have missed something during the cleaning. Would it be worth it to run something like SeaFoam through it? You can try some SeaFoam.Won't hurt a bit & may save you taking carbs apart again.   |
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Post by eaglerider on Aug 10, 2012 20:42:36 GMT -6
Three turns out, I think is a bit much.
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Post by Jet⚡Black on Aug 11, 2012 0:43:10 GMT -6
I thought 3 turns out would a bit much myself; I read about a month or two back on an ex500 board some of those guys run 4 to 5 turns out depending on elevation, jets and exhaust. I'm guessing remat got it ironed out though...? He's posted elsewhere here a few times since, so I assumed he did. If I had to go 3 turns or more out I'd go up a size in pilot or fiddle with needle height. I personally, don't like to go over 2-1/2 out either.
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Post by Blaine on Aug 11, 2012 6:05:03 GMT -6
I thought 3 turns out would a bit much myself; I read about a month or two back on an ex500 board some of those guys run 4 to 5 turns out depending on elevation, jets and exhaust. I'm guessing remat got it ironed out though...? He's posted elsewhere here a few times since, so I assumed he did. If I had to go 3 turns or more out I'd go up a size in pilot or fiddle with needle height. I personally, don't like to go over 2-1/2 out either. Mine are set about 3 1/2 turns out.Of course my needles are shimmed. |
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Post by remat457 on Aug 13, 2012 13:02:37 GMT -6
Sorry guys I didn't post a follow up I have them about 3 turns out currently. It seems to run fine around town except for the first couple of minutes for the motor to warm up. I have not tried full throttle yet to see what happens. I do need to get it worked out but for the moment the bike is rideable I think maybe my floats are a little too high. I did notice that there was a #35 and a #32 pilot. Which is stock? Thanks! |
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Post by Jet⚡Black on Aug 13, 2012 20:42:11 GMT -6
The #35 is US stock for low altitude, and the #32 is US stock for high altitude.
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Post by remat457 on Aug 17, 2012 20:39:37 GMT -6
Makes sense, I am pretty sure they were #35.
It maybe the hot weather (we are not used 90+ degree weather in Seattle) but it has been extraordinarily hard starting. It turns over and starts bug lugs very slowly. Today I had to kick up the idle to keep it alive until it warmed up a few mins later. Weird thing is that if I touch the throttle it dies.
What does that mean? I am probably going to have to take the carbs off again aren't I...I fear I missed something.
Thanks for continued help!
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Post by Jet⚡Black on Aug 17, 2012 23:55:21 GMT -6
I'm sure you've done the valves recently...so I agree that you're not getting proper delivery of fuel. When you had the carbs apart did you remove and clean the jet holders? If not then that's most likely your issue, as each one has quite a few tiny holes to get completely gummed up with varnish. Other than that something is interfering with fuel delivery at idle; be it an inline fuel filter, float level, etc.
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