Our 2 1986 454 LTD's

[bando909]

Here's our two 1986's 454 LTD's one has 2,900 miles and the other has 32,000 miles. Both were in pretty bad shape when we got each one. My buddies was sitting in his dad garage for 20 years untouched until March we dug it out and started wrenching on it. Mostly cosmic damage, Bike was wrecked on both sides the fuel tank had dents on either side and were pulled out then bondo'ed over, rear fender was cracked, All 4 turn signals broken. Somehow all the levers and footpegs were still attached. It took us some time with respraying, cleaning, and doing basic maintance items. But she finally started in the middle of June. And she moved under her own power after 20 years being locked away. I rode the bike and like it so much I bought myself one lol, However mine is in much worse shape, Was left outside cosmetically it was in decent condition other than paint fade on the tank graphic and plastics from the sun. But the more I dug into the bike the more problems I ended up finding. I managed to finally get it running at the end of July, but it needed a lot of work. And this forum helped me alot with unanswered questions that I could not find so I appreciate it. These bikes run fantastic when they are maintained right and even after all that time sitting and not being care for they still started up and ran.

So here's what is still up with our bikes. 


My buddies needs new fork seals still as they are leaking we replaced them but I believe either we put too much fluid in or air got trapped in the fork causing too much pressure and ended up blowing the new seals, gas tank was a mess full of rust but we ended up treating it and getting most of it out.


And mine just has a small leak just past the thermostat. But it's only a few drops of coolant so I'm thinking the thermostat is malfuncitoning and is probably original. Either that or hoses are shot because the clamps are tight as they will go. Also need a new Front Brake Master cylinder as mine is leaking fluid from the cylinder itself where the brake handle colides with the cylinder to apply pressure to the brake. Seems also I've been having issues getting the bike to rev up properly. Now I've adjusted the valves to spec. .007 in for the intake and .009 for Exhaust valves with a feeler gauge. Also checked timing and it was spot on. Replaced the cylinder cover gasket with RTV silicone and a new gasket itself. Torque spec'ed all the cover bolts to 87 inch pounds per the shop manual, and no leaks in sight so thats swell. Airbox is stock with new filters and are 100% complete no pods. Carburetors has been completely gone through check the diaphragms and they are working fine, needles are in the correct place, All the main jets and pilot jets have been blown out with carburetor cleaner and compressed air, float heights check out ok, and the needles attached to the floats are fine, floats are still springing ok. Checked the pilot Adjustment screws Set them to 1 3/4 turns out (US does not have it in the manual as it says Preset, but the Canadian models have the specs so I went off of that) I adjusted them to where the bike runs fine and any time riding around in any gear at any speed it will accelerate without lag or bogging. Spark plugs are a copper color so I assume the fuel and air mix is correct. I also Checked the entire spark system from the pick up coils all the way to the plugs themselves. Pick up coils are in spec, Ignition coils are the same, spark plugs are new, Igniter I swapped with my buddies since his was running fine and no avail. Stator and Regulator Rectifier I assume are working because I swapped a new Regulator Rectifier in. And while the bike is running the battery is charging up So I assume the stator is working fine.  New Lithium Ion Battery, also installed a new starter solenoid and starter motor since it has trouble starting. Kinda coughs a bit to get going even with choke pulled. The strange thing is the bike rides 100% Fine just refuses to rev up right. quarter or less throttle is fine and full throttle is fine also. but anywhere between 1/4 and 3/4 it gets hung up at 2-3,000 RPM for a split second before continuing upwards even when the engine is hot. I am going to eliminate the AIS system on the bike to see if it helps any. Got a block off plate kit coming in the mail. Not sure if that air being forced into the exhaust is causing it to stutter or not. Not sure what the next steps would be so any information anyone may have would be awesome as I just do this a hobby as I'm sure most of us here do. The only other thing is the Ignition was messed up, Sometimes I turn the key to the "ON" Position and hit the starter button and nothing. I have to then turn the key off then on again and then the bike will start. Had the original key from 86' but it was very worn down and we cut a new key which works better but time to time the same problem will happen. Not sure if that has something to do with the bike running poorly either. 

Thanks alot

[bando909]

Here's some Pictures 


photos.app.goo.gl/Eti4ajoSTEaSvEe8A

[eaglerider]

Good job!! Ignition switch tends to fail at some point, due to age, being old brittle plastic on the bottom, and not allowing good contact.

[bando909]

Thanks Eagle! Read up on most of your responses which helped with a lot of stuff so I really appreciate it. I'm probably going to replace the ignition at some point. I believe Babbitt's Kawasaki Part house out of Michigan sells the ignition in whole. The only reason I wanted to get it through them vs second hand or Ebay was to see if they can have the cylinder fit the key. I have the original key which has the serial number to match to the locks. $150 is steep though but I'm going to ride it out until it fails. I do have a trailer if all else fails to get it home. Any tips on what could cause that low RPM stutter? I could care less if the bike rides like it does its just fine. Just only hangs up if you try to rev it in neutral or with the clutch pulled in. Very strange, never had that happened on any of my other bikes. I'm going to check the vacuum pressure on the carburetors again to see if they are pulling the same amount of air in. I have a gauge to do so, I checked it before the valve adjustment and it was spot on maybe off by a hairline I tried to get the numbers as close as I could but I'll double check tonight again. Not sure if a faulty ignition would cause havoc on the bike revving. But other than that both bikes ride like a champ. 

[bando909]

However now that I did a little more research according to one website it says the following


Engine Dies After Starting


This is one of the most common symptoms of a bad ignition switch. Worn contacts inside the switch may cause a momentarily loss of voltage as a result of heat or vibration. As a result, Any loss of power through the switch will cause the engine to stumble, misfire or die.


So that may be a possibility. The vibration that occurs when the bike Revs up could cause a momentary loss of connection. Causing the bike to stumble, I can always take the one off the other 454 and try it at least then I can rule it out. Never knew that could be an issue.  

[eaglerider]

There is a work around type deal......you may have noticed several posts about it....ignition switch diagram, using a simple (I recommend a keyed) 2 wire, on/off switch. Oh, and on the valve adjustment...always use the higher settings that is recommended...yes, causes the engine to be a bit more noisy, but longer between valve adjustments....these engines require checking/adjusting valves every 5 to 6 thousand miles.

[bando909]

Now on the valve adjustment it says in the manual to go on the intake side between .005-.007 Inches and on exhaust side .007 to .009 Inches. So would it be better to go to the lower number or higher number?


I also lucked out Babbitt's does not make an cylinder it would have a new key so poked around on Ebay and a guy was selling all the locks off an 85' with 12,000 miles. It was a running bike before being dismantled. So I got an ignition cylinder, Gas cap, both helmet locks and the hard to find toolbox with the key all for $110 which I thought was fantastic.


Also managed to scoop up a rear tail light with bracket, complete rust free gas tank and the paint was in immaculate shape, as well as the rear fender for my buddies bike. Since his tank is about had it and the fender was an identical match it was perfect. Also he doesn't have the original tail light. Not sure if its from a vulcan or ninja? but doesnt fit right had to make it fit. So got that also all for $200. Going to install them hopefully over the weekend and see what happens fingers crossed

[eaglerider]

Higher number on the valve adjustments.....engine will be a bit more noisy, but do not let that worry you...perfectly normal. with prices for the 454 parts, You got a fair deal. Where are you? Know anyone that wants/needs a "454 Gold Mine? See my post here in the forum...I no longer ride due to health reasons, and have a big package deal for sale, or would possibly consider some kind of trade....I just hate to see all the money spent, blood, sweat and tears, just sitting there, going to waste

[bando909]

I'm sorry to hear that Eagle that must be extremely frustrating. I can only image how much it must suck, especially putting all that work into it. I saw your pictures your bike is beautiful compared to what we got. Puts ours to shame, but that newer tank and fender were suppose to get today might give it a good run for its money but we'll see. I'm 45 minutes outside of Chicago. 

Also I did set the higher number on the valve adjustments when I did them. Tried revving it up when hot, still getting caught up at the same spot so we'll see today all the parts I ordered should be here this afternoon. Also think it could be misfiring, but again I'll replace the ignition first then go from there. Very excited and so is my buddy

[bando909]

Eagle I can not believe it but I found the problem. Turns out I had bought some aftermarket air filters for the air box off eBay. Turns out those do not restrict the airflow enough so the bike gets too much air and bogs out while revving. As soon as I swapped them bam no lag while revving.

[Blaine]

Sept 27, 2018 20:05:32 GMT -6 bando909 said:

Eagle I can not believe it but I found the problem. Turns out I had bought some aftermarket air filters for the air box off eBay. Turns out those do not restrict the airflow enough so the bike gets too much air and bogs out while revving. As soon as I swapped them bam no lag while revving.

There are many posts on here about tuning the carbs with free flowing filters......But stock airbox is best.

[bando909]

I do have the stock air box and its 100% complete when I bought the bike but it had no air filters in it. I had bought a set off ebay from a company called Hi Flo. They are practically from a glance 1 to 1 identical to OEM. However my buddy Jimmy's 454 had the original air filters in his from 86'. Turns out the OEM padding I believe is thicker, has more slats in the filter where as the aftermarket does not. Also there's a good 1/8 of an inch gap where I can take my fingers and move aftermarket filter up and down. Where as the OEM ones you can not do that its a tighter seal in there. That apparently made all the difference, I rode for 5 minutes each with both sets of filters and you can definitely tell a difference. If you try and roll hard on the throttle in 5th or 6th gear it cuts down for a split second with the aftermarkets. VS the OEM ones no matter what speed, gear or how hard you twist the throttle the bike pulls no bog or lag. Seems these bikes are very sensitive when it comes to that. Not sure how these guys with pods are running because if I had this much trouble with just the wrong filter I can only imagine how difficult it has to be to get that mix right with the pods. Always going OEM for now on.

[Blaine]

When I went pods it took awhile to figger all out......In the end cutting 3 coils off the diaphran spring did the trick....The slide & needle has much less restance to rise so less vacuum is not a problem......Much crisper throttle response.

[bando909]

Well that's good, at least you figured it out. That would have drove me nuts. Also I found out my carburetors were out of sync. Left was at 20, Right was pulling 22. So I matched the right with the left and now you best hold the heck on lol. Now I have no bogging when the throttle is twisted wide open and when I'm cruising between 40-50 mph I used to get some stuttering. Almost like it was miss firing to would cut out of a split second and come back was very strange. But now after I synced the carburetors I was able to hold it at 40 or 45 in 6th and it was just riding true. I may have turn the center screw to adjust the right carburetor less than an 1/8 of a turn and that seem to make all the difference. I'll double check again once I get my new OEM air filters in. But it rides better than it ever has since I got the bike 3 months ago. 

[erbuck]

Sorry if I was too impatient to see where you posted it......

What did you use to de-rust the inside of the tank you repainted grey? I've tried a couple of acid solutions and it seems like I'm making things rustier.

[bando909]

I used muriatic acid, for one gallon 1/4 acid to 3/4 water. Then let it sit in the tank overnight, however I recommend to not do it for that long as it ended up eating the threads for the petcock inside the tank. So maybe do it for 4 hours then remove it. Flash rust is bound to happen as the tank is pure steel. But I found that the kits for rust removal suck and that the sealant ends up breaking down and could clog the petcock or worse the carburetors. I ended up buying a "new" tank and fender on ebay. Ran me about $200 was well worth the money and the hassle. Both bikes are still running great. Cant wait for the weather to warm up here around Chicago again. 

[actionverb]

Fixing my tank was the worst part of bringing my 87 back to lfe. No exaggeration, I put maybe 10 hours into just getting the inside fixed. First time through this process so I could and would do it differently and save myself some serious effort. Eventually used a KBS Coatings system, 2 years later its holding up well. Total PITA to do though. Also have a fuel filter installed just in case. Definitely a learning experience.

[bando909]

Absolutely the worst was the rusty gas tank. I was very fortunate to find what I think was a mint condition tank. Both of our 454's are still holding well. Just rebuilt the carburetors on the red one again as the left float bowl gasket was so badly deteriorated that it was leaking out the side of the bowl. So we rebuilt the entire set for $50 was not a bad investment. Next is fixing the fork seals tomorrow hopefully 3rd times the charm. I got the correct fork seal driver tool and hopefully better fork oil for the job. So far it seems we always get one right and the other leaks. Going to thoroughly inspect the forks tomorrow and completely rebuild them. But once that's done the Red Baron will be fully operational.