Overheating problem

[emagt980two]

Hi guys

I have a problem with my bike. I rebuilt all the engine and currently, it starts. I've connected all the hoses but not the thermostat.

The situation is next:

1.- It starts well and after 10 minutes (approx) the coolant liquid starts boiling and also it stars to throw out from the top reservoir hose.

2.- After that coolant liquid is boiling I turn the bike off and the reservoir gets empty. I've already refilled the reservoir twice

2.- The fan switch does not turn on, but it works (I've tested it) so I will try to connect it directly

3.- The bike throw out the liquid coolant from the right side head hole

4.- I do not have connected the dash on the bike so I've not could see the temp range (But I suppose it´s high cuz the coolant liquid boils)

Thanks guys
I'll really appreciate your help

Photos:
drive.google.com/open?id=1dCwuV-Gh0vo8zMxQBG8E09Wm57OYED_3
I had to use another switch fan sensor It is for a car. In fact, I know en450 sensor works at 100-100 celcius and mine works at 77-87 celcius So mine will start working before the original sensor.

[bikeman]

first of all let me say I have no idea what you have done or why the description provided does not go any where near  detailed  enough to start to figure out exactly what the issue is.


all I could do is explain how the system is supposed to work and then you may be able to figure it out for yourself.


the cooling system on these bikes is a pressurised system that relies on every part working together to keep the engine cool. normally water boils at 100 degrees C. coolant a little higher at about 105c.  


being pressurised [think pressure cooker]. this increases the boiling point even further to probably around 120c by which time the fan will have engaged to lower the temp by passing cool air through the rad core.  the settings are set by the components of the system.  you need all of them to be working.

the fan doesn't run all the time only when the temp rises too much and cuts off when it cools enough but this will be way higher than the boiling point of the non pressurised coolant.  also there needs to be no air locks in the system [as this reduces the pressure] or leaks as this does the same thing.

if you have the bike running while stationary you have no air flow through the rad core so it will get hotter quicker, [try placing a room fan in front of the rad when doing this] but the crux of the matter is if you don't have the correct coolant pressure due to leaks or air locks the coolant could boil well before the is set to turn on.


in summary if you have to have a fully pressurised system with proper coolant and no air or fluid leaks  anywhere in the system, if it should boil over. things to look out for are poor rad cap seal, water leaks, incorrectly fitted hoses. or anything that contributes to lack of pressure. if everything checks out and it still boils over the cylinder head gasket may have blown. or the heads could be warped if you strip the engine you need to lap both the head and cylinder block to ensure they are flat on reassembly.






 

[emagt980two]

The bike is currently running, in fact there are not leaks. but she gets hot quickly and the water still boils

I have not changed radiator cap. Do I try to change it first?

BTW the bike runs pretty good.

[bikeman]

if it looks worn on the seal yeah it's a start. did you bleed the system to remove all the air. if it throws fluid out of top reservoir does that mean it full to the top should only be half full if your losing fluid out of the system it's not pressurising so it will boil at a lower temp than normal. 

[emagt980two]

Thanks for your help bikeman. I have a good new. I've changed the rad cap and the water doesn't boil anymore. But the bike get hot until the red line.
Bikeman buddy, excuse for my English. I'm from Mexico though. lol

[emagt980two]

Do you know how to clean the rad? BTW The local shop had two rad caps. 13psi and 9psi(0.9) So I chose 0.9

[knoizy]

Have you checked the water pump is ok? Water temp sensor OK?

To test the radiator, lay it flat and fill with hot water from a kettle. If you have an IR camera or phone app look for cold spots or use your hands to feel, there are various methods to clean typically using CLR or flushing products. Its a good idea make sure all the electronics are working correctly first - fan switch, fan, temp sensor.

[emagt980two]

Thanks buddy knoizy
To be honest I don't know how to check the water pump. When I bought the bike She was not running. So I've rebuilt the full engine with new rings and new gaskets. Also I had to change the water pump so I bougth a second hand pump on ebay. The only I can remember is that I tigh hard the impeller. I wanna know if it could be a problem. I will wash the rad with hot water. If doesn't work I will look for some cleaner like CLR. It's quite hard to get it in México.
BTW I've connected a manual switch to the fan.

[bikeman]

ok I understand English is not your first language so I will try to make this a simple to understand as possible. your engine is getting hot very quickly it should not. 

this suggests the coolant is not flowing properly. mine will run at least 45mins before the fan [automatic] comes on.   the cause could be anything in the system. so start the bike with the engine cold. set a fast idle around 2k.  then feel the top of the radiator on the outside. see how the temp rises after a few mins when it is getting warm feel the bottom of the radiator to see if that is getting warm also. run it a bit longer to see if the temperature is the roughly the same top and bottom. 


what you are checking is. if the top of the radiator does not get warm but the engine does. the water pump is not working.  


if the top get warm but the bottom does not.  the radiator is probably blocked and not circulating. 


if both get warm at the same time top slightly quicker than the bottom. the coolant is circulating fine.

but if the engine still gets hot even if the fan is running you have other issues to look at. do this test first and get back with results we will take it from there. 

[emagt980two]

Thanks bikeman
Today I wasn't able to run the bike cuz It's raining here.
Last time I ran the bike out (The bike was cold), the radiator gets hot top slightly quicker than the bottom. Both sides get hot at the same time. Today I've found out that the temperature sensor (Which is plugged in in the thermostat and sends the signal to the dash) is not the genuine one. Cuz I've been looking for it on eBay and mine shows a little bit different with this one :

i.ebayimg.com/images/g/p8sAAOSwZltb1qVO/s-l1600.jpg.

In fact, the yellow /white wire doesn't fits on the temp sensor terminal. So I had to use another terminal on the wire and it works. So I suspicious my temp sensor is doing a wrong reading cuz It's not the original one.
BTW I've take the air switch valve off

[eaglerider]

These bikes are known to get "air locked" when filling or re-filling the cooling system. That means an air pocket forms and prevents the system from filling and circulating properly....If I remember right, the manual tells you how to make sure that does not happen, by leaving a hose loose, until the coolant starts coming out.

[emagt980two]

Ok I will fill the colling system by the afternoon as the manual says. On the other hand I found that the original temp sender has next number part 42066-1118

Do you know if one of next senders fits on the En450?

articulo.mercadolibre.com.mx/MLM-692006122-sensor-temperatura-bulbo-kawasaki-vulcan-500-ninja-250-zl600-_JM

articulo.mercadolibre.com.mx/MLM-665147667-kawasaki-zx600-93-08-sensor-temperatura-_JM

Thanks Eaglerider

[bikeman]

now you know why I said in my first post there wasn't enough information given.  when you are trying to diagnose an issue on the keyboard from 1000's of miles away details of what's happening and when are important otherwise your chasing ghosts. assuming the worst scenario when if fact it is something really simple and easily fixed. 

as for your last post it is impossible to know if a replacement of unknown origin would work exactly the same as a stock part. the temp sensors vary a great deal in there use.  it works by sensing the temperature by altering the resistance in the unit.   so less resistance the higher it reads. in order to work correctly it has to match the same resistance used by the Gauge or in other words at half the running temp of the engine the resistance of the sender should half way in the workable zone. but also show half way on the temp gauge. if there not the same. any readings of the gauge will be inaccurate.  

[emagt980two]

I have some good news guys.

I took the radiator off (the coolant was clean) and I tested it witch clean water. And the water flowed well. So I think the rad is working good. After mounting the rad I added new coolant 50/50 and I could run the bike out. So in the beginning, the temp range was by the half. And riding for 15-20 minutes approx the temp gets until the half. And never overpassed it. In total, I was riding the bike for approx 50 minutes with two breaks. I think the temp was good all the time. But probably there is a new problem. I felt that the coolant doesn't flow well. I think that cuz the rad filler tube doesn't get hot but the thermostat hoses did. And also the top of the rad was cold all the time and the bottom of the rad got just a little bit hot. I don't know if I have to run the bike out for more time or just turn on the bike for more time and see how does the temp comes up and check if the coolant flows at a higher temp.

I don't suspect I have a stuck thermostat . cuz the thermostat hoses get hot.

[bikeman]

it sounds fine to me. give it a longer run and see what happens. had mine out to day. it autumn here so around 15c. did almost 90miles in just over and hour. 

yeah I wasn't hanging around. temp gauge never went above half way.   most of the time it stayed around 1/3rd just above C mark. 

[emagt980two]

Thanks guys

It seems the bike runs great and the temp is normal too. But sometimes the battery gets low. I bought that battery 5 months ago and installed it on the bike. Once I found out the rings were broken the battery was unused. So I just took the battery off and never used it until these days. So I think the battery got bad. On the other hand, I don't know if the regulator is not charging the battery. BTW. Since I bought the battery. I've charged it for approx 5 times. Firs time (When the battery was new) I charged it for 8 hours. Second-time for 4 hours approx and recently I've charged it for approx 1 or 2 hours. So I don't know if I gotta charge it again for 8 hours as I did as the first time.

It's a LTH battery

[bikeman]

this is easy to test but you need a multi meter.  first charge battery for at least a couple of hours. refit to bike. set the meter to 0-20v DC. test the voltage across the battery engine off.  it should be around 12.5v to 13v fully charged. start the bike check the voltage again [around 3000rpm] voltage should go up to between 13.5 and 14.5v  if it does it's fine. if not the bikes not charging. once established. check the drop voltage of the battery by putting the meter across the battery. and pressing the starter look at the readings if the voltage goes below 11v the battery is no good.


two other points. 1. if your messing with the bike a lot and using the starter but not let it run long enough to recharge the battery it will eventually run the battery down.

and 2. what is the amp rating of the battery you have typically these bikes require one of at least 14amps  much lees than that it may not be up to the job these bike have no kick start so depend on a good high power battery.  

[steamy]

Just to add to bikemans reply... if you dont already know, the magnets on the flywheel on these bikes are known to fall apart, possibly causing damage to your stator. Redesigned aftermarket flywheels with a solid magnet are available, fyi.

[emagt980two]

Thanks guys. Sorry for not posting. Next week I will try what bikeman said. I've not been working on the bike cuz I had a surgery on my eyes. But next week I will be working on it.

I appreciate your help

[emagt980two]

The battery charges well.
I've been running the bike recently and I think she runs great.
But I've been running the bike without mufflers (just the headers) because I don't have en450's stock mufflers.
Will it be hurt the engine? I'm worry about it.
BTW I have a pair of harley stock mufflers. I've not installed them yet.
Would they fit on En450?
Thanks guys

[eaglerider]

Will not hurt the engine. The harley mufflers have a 1 3/4 inch inlet, so to use them, you will have to make an adapter to increase the header size at the end up to 1 3/4 inch. I have harley mufflers on mine. here is what I did.....I cut the header pipes just in front of the crossover pipe, eliminating it, making two individual exhaust headers, then bought a piece of 1 3/4 inch exhaust pipe from an auto parts store, or a muffler shop, cut two pieces a little longer than needed. you then can drive each one over the exhaust header as far as it will go, then measure how far back that you want the muffler to extend, cut the exhaust pipe to the length you need. the harley muffler can now be clamped on the exhaust pipe. If needed to make the muffler level to the ground (as it will angle down just a little) you can put a little upwards angle on the exhaust pipe by heating and bending it upwards a little bit. Hope my long instructions don't confuse you. You can see what the mufflers look like in the Photo Gallery under the title of Eagle...that is my bike. There are others that have done the same thing.

[emagt980two]

Thx Eagle
I've seen the photo gallery and your bike looks pretty nice!
I've read your post many times and It's really clear. So I think I have not problem.
So I'll start working on it this afternoon. I'll post if a doubt comes up.

[eaglerider]

I wish it still looked that good.

[emagt980two]

What happened with your bike?

[emagt980two]

Hi guys...!

I have a situation with the bike.

Every morning she's hard to start up. In fact, I have to spray a little of starter fluid on the filters (pod filters). And then she starts. Once I do a short trip the bike stars up again without starter fluid and sometimes she needs fluid again. At this point the bike ran so great I think. So in order to solve the start issue today, I took the carbs off and cleaned them. I adjusted the air jets (I did them 2 1/2 turns), also I adjusted the gas jets (I did them 2 1/2 turns too and it's a complete mistake They should be tight!) and changed a float valve that wasn't working well, Now the two floats have a heigh of 20mm from the top. So I think the floats are good. BTW yesterday one carb was leaking gas through the air filter. That's why I changed the float valve and it seems it works. There's no leaking again. Well after all that I mount the carbs on the bike and she's still hard to start and the worst thing is that She's poor running (I think It's because of the mistake I've committed when "adjusting" the gas jets ).

BTW I've done the valve adjustment twice with the next values: Valve clearance inlet: 0.179 mm, exhaust: 0.229 mm. I've changed both spark plugs 3 days ago. And as I mentioned she's still hard to start up and has poor running now. I appreciate your help. Thx for reading my post

[knoizy]

You are correct to be doing an overhaul on everything but the pods bring a whole world of problems into the equation. Some guys have got it right but many have failed and it usually ends up in a re-jet and spring cut for local atmospheric conditions, sometimes an extra sock to restrict airflow. Do you know if this bike was ever seen running well on pods? Are the jets and springs factory? Seems like two options available - keep experimenting with the pods and hope you get lucky or put it back to factory stock and at least you'd know the parts and settings were correct. These bikes are fussy on the airflow, even with stock you need everything fully fitted when tuning carbs and that's why the pods create an infinite set of new problems! 

[emagt980two]

Thanks knoizy.

As you say this bike is really fussy on the airflow. However, it's kinda difficult to get genuine filters and the airbox in Mexico. Today I'll be experimenting with the air jets. In fact yesterday the bike turned on better. but she's still poor running. BTW I forgot mentioned that the starter motor is getting a loud "grinding/squealing" since I bought the bike (I think the problem is the starter clutch). So this could be a reason why the bike couldn't start up well.

[knoizy]

I hear you, and once again I'd consider that the bike may never have run well on pods so perhaps there isn't any setting or adjustment about to hit the sweet spot. I hope there is but it would mean the previous owner has done the work with jets and springs (and socks!) to get it correctly tuned, its not like there's any factory settings here. 

My starter clutch failed due to a couple of hairline cracks in the body (and no doubt the springs were old and tired) but the sound was more of a mechanical ratchet than a squeal. Any work on the starter clutch needs the correct flywheel puller and the hex bolts might need a blowtorch to release. Strap wrench and impact gun come in handy, its s pretty simple job but definitely one that needs the correct tools. IIRC you can remove the generator cover and watch/listen when starting, expect a little oil spray from the crank but it should also then be obvious what the problem is before you begin work.